Question/Advice regarding a Grant Warning I Got

Hey guys

Appreciate the time and effort on you all going through this and sharing your thoughts. Always helpful to hear different perspectives. @makedansure @Mark6pro @KidMoe .

Well, this whole boxing project thing is not something I yet make margin profit of, it is not what I feed my family or live from. It basically pays off the expenses as of now, but eBay have been one of the main selling channels. Anyway, my eBay account isn't that big deal, may have about 30~ transactions along 2 years ago that I created it. Which still, I wouldn't like to loose.

In other words, I mainly do this because I love boxing, having my room full of different boxing gear and raising these Mexican brands to the outside world of Mexico.

My worry on this topic is more on trying to understand if I'm really going against their patent - which I wouldn't like doing - or they may just be trying to apply their power. I'm not offering replicas or fake Grant gloves, what I'm offering is other Mexican workshop brands with variated colors designs, where some have the 3 stripes.

Appreciate Grant gloves patent may include specific requirements on the whole making of glove and not only its triple colors design. What doesn't make sense to me, is that other Mexican gloves made by other workshops as they've always been done in their own style, should not be allowed to produce/ commercialize triple stripe thumb/ cuff colors design.

Thanks,
Edgar

Not a lawyer so take the following with a grain of salt. It doesn't add up that there is a patent on an aesthetic feature like a triple stripe thumb. Patents are supposed to be useful and novel. From Wikipedia on US patent law.

These guidelines assert that a process, including a process for doing business, must produce a concrete, useful and tangible result to be patentable. It does not matter whether the process is within the traditional technological arts or not.

Here's another link on patentability. Now, if it's a trademark, that makes more sense as to the type of IP.

The infringement should be accurately described in these kind of communications. Sounds like BS.
 
So just to make sure I understand this correctly, this is in regards to selling gloves by other manufacturers with the 3-stripe thumb design, such as New Sporting, correct? Would he be allowed to sell actual Grant gloves on eBay with the triple striped thumb? I also don’t really understand how Grant could get a patent on such a generic feature as three stripes on the thumb.
 
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Thanks @destroyer4147 ! :)

Hi everyone

Perhaps some of you may have seen me around this forum. I'm a promoter and distributor of several Mexican boxing brands.

I would like to ask your advise or if you've got perhaps the knowledge of the following situation I've faced with Grant.

I normally list on eBay some of the gloves I have for sale. And it happens to be that I've received a notification message from Grant warning me about having gloves for sale having a triple stripe thumb, which they mention they own the patent rights for this, and I should remove / stop selling any of these or their attorneys would get into this.

I wanted to ask you, in case any of you may know more regarding the Boxing patents, do you know if this may be true? I've tried searching in google for Grant patents, and I was able to find some, but none mentioning the triple stripe thumb.

In my ignorance of Boxing glove patents, I just don't think that a glove design in terms of the segmented colors, could be patented and just being own by a single brand. Was wondering if perhaps you could have some more experience on this?

Does anyone got any advice or experience in the Boxing Gloves patents and have ever been able to find the documentation for these Triple Stripe thumb?

You may find below screenshots of the message received by them.
View attachment 845826

View attachment 845827

View attachment 845829

Thanks to you all for reading this.

Thanks @destroyer4147 ! :)

Hi everyone

Perhaps some of you may have seen me around this forum. I'm a promoter and distributor of several Mexican boxing brands.

I would like to ask your advise or if you've got perhaps the knowledge of the following situation I've faced with Grant.

I normally list on eBay some of the gloves I have for sale. And it happens to be that I've received a notification message from Grant warning me about having gloves for sale having a triple stripe thumb, which they mention they own the patent rights for this, and I should remove / stop selling any of these or their attorneys would get into this.

I wanted to ask you, in case any of you may know more regarding the Boxing patents, do you know if this may be true? I've tried searching in google for Grant patents, and I was able to find some, but none mentioning the triple stripe thumb.

In my ignorance of Boxing glove patents, I just don't think that a glove design in terms of the segmented colors, could be patented and just being own by a single brand. Was wondering if perhaps you could have some more experience on this?

Does anyone got any advice or experience in the Boxing Gloves patents and have ever been able to find the documentation for these Triple Stripe thumb?

You may find below screenshots of the message received by them.
View attachment 845826

View attachment 845827

View attachment 845829

Thanks to you all for reading this.

Hello Edgar. First, please do not act on anything I’m about to post. Second I am a former attorney and although I quit the practice of law several years ago, there are some issues in the e-mail that I may be able help you with. So this e-mail was sent to you by Grant. There are some glaring overstatements made by the author. First, there are no “worldwide patents”. Patents are issued in the United States by the US Patent Office. They issue process patents and trademarks. The author of the e-mail claims the patent at issue is the tri-colored thumb and the cuff of the gloves. I can assure you Grant has a patent on neither. First, patents are generally enforceable for 20 years. The most common patent is a “utility” patent. Utility patents are issued for inventions, usually the first of an idea or actual physical object. Boxing gloves or more specifically the thumb on a boxing glove has been around for so long, without knowing more, I’d doubt that is the patent being referenced. The triple cuff has also been around a long time. Flores gloves had the triple cuff before Grant was formed in 1995 so that is also an unlikely application of the the claim against you. The second most common patent is the design patent. Apparently Grant claims they have a patent on the tri-colored thumb and cuff. Grant would have had to design the tri-colored thumb and cuff, apply for the patent to the US Patent Office, had the design patent granted and have done so within the last 14 years. Design patents, unlike utility patents are enforceable for 14 years. Here’s the catch, design patent can only be aesthetic-they cannot be functional. The thumb and cuff of a boxing glove are functional. But the colored leather patches are not. So even if Grant has a patent, which is highly unlikely, it would be on the tri-colored pateches on the thumb. But again, the patent would have to have been granted within the last 14 years. The third kind of patent is not applicable. It is called a “plant patent”. Research scientist and big agribusinesses apply for these patents and when I say plant, I literally mean the green leafy organism that grows in the soil.
Patents lawsuits are brought in United States Federal District Courts. Therefore, they can only be enforceable where those courts have jurisdiction. Unless Mexico has ceded its sovereignty to US Patent Courts, the suit would be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. To my knowledge there has never been one instance of Mexican authorities enforcing a US patent in Mexico. I seriously doubt Grant has an enforceable patent or trademark claim for either the tri-colored thumb or triple cuff of a boxing glove. Most holders of a genuine patent are sophisticated enough to know how to enforce or protect their patents. They do not casually transmit poorly worded e-mails to the seller of what they believe is an infringement of their patent. If their patent is valuable to them they have the same attorney who filed their application send a notice of claim letter. That letter is mailed by certified mail return receipt requested because they need evidence you were put on notice. I don’t have enough information to give you specific legal advise and would not normally advise anyone via Sherdog forums, but you are a good honest man trying to start a new business. Now I’m going to make some suppositions based upon what I know. First, Grant would be after the maker of your gloves not the seller. There are several really good glove makers in Mexico that supposedly made gloves for Grant under contract. Were I the attorney for Grant it is the glove maker I would put on notice not the eBay seller posting the gloves online. Grant has much more to lose from the maker who can reproduce the gloves than the seller of that reproduction. Second, there are tri-colored thumbed and triple cuffed boxing gloves everywhere. Why would Grant Worldwide, Inc send the seller of a few pairs of gloves they claim are infringing on their patent, a cease and desist letter, when there are some really big manufacturers of those gloves out there with deep pockets. I do know that there are only a couple of reliable sellers of genuine Mexican made boxing gloves on eBay. If you took all the gloves those sellers sell in a year and combined them, it still would not amount to the loss they incur from say Sabas, or New Sporting, or Leaders of Russian Boxer in a week. So the fact that you were sent a poorly worded email to get you to stop is highly suspicious. You know how to contact me if you want to discuss this more.
 
Hello Edgar. First, please do not act on anything I’m about to post. Second I am a former attorney and although I quit the practice of law several years ago, there are some issues in the e-mail that I may be able help you with. So this e-mail was sent to you by Grant. There are some glaring overstatements made by the author. First, there are no “worldwide patents”. Patents are issued in the United States by the US Patent Office. They issue process patents and trademarks. The author of the e-mail claims the patent at issue is the tri-colored thumb and the cuff of the gloves. I can assure you Grant has a patent on neither. First, patents are generally enforceable for 20 years. The most common patent is a “utility” patent. Utility patents are issued for inventions, usually the first of an idea or actual physical object. Boxing gloves or more specifically the thumb on a boxing glove has been around for so long, without knowing more, I’d doubt that is the patent being referenced. The triple cuff has also been around a long time. Flores gloves had the triple cuff before Grant was formed in 1995 so that is also an unlikely application of the the claim against you. The second most common patent is the design patent. Apparently Grant claims they have a patent on the tri-colored thumb and cuff. Grant would have had to design the tri-colored thumb and cuff, apply for the patent to the US Patent Office, had the design patent granted and have done so within the last 14 years. Design patents, unlike utility patents are enforceable for 14 years. Here’s the catch, design patent can only be aesthetic-they cannot be functional. The thumb and cuff of a boxing glove are functional. But the colored leather patches are not. So even if Grant has a patent, which is highly unlikely, it would be on the tri-colored pateches on the thumb. But again, the patent would have to have been granted within the last 14 years. The third kind of patent is not applicable. It is called a “plant patent”. Research scientist and big agribusinesses apply for these patents and when I say plant, I literally mean the green leafy organism that grows in the soil.
Patents lawsuits are brought in United States Federal District Courts. Therefore, they can only be enforceable where those courts have jurisdiction. Unless Mexico has ceded its sovereignty to US Patent Courts, the suit would be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. To my knowledge there has never been one instance of Mexican authorities enforcing a US patent in Mexico. I seriously doubt Grant has an enforceable patent or trademark claim for either the tri-colored thumb or triple cuff of a boxing glove. Most holders of a genuine patent are sophisticated enough to know how to enforce or protect their patents. They do not casually transmit poorly worded e-mails to the seller of what they believe is an infringement of their patent. If their patent is valuable to them they have the same attorney who filed their application send a notice of claim letter. That letter is mailed by certified mail return receipt requested because they need evidence you were put on notice. I don’t have enough information to give you specific legal advise and would not normally advise anyone via Sherdog forums, but you are a good honest man trying to start a new business. Now I’m going to make some suppositions based upon what I know. First, Grant would be after the maker of your gloves not the seller. There are several really good glove makers in Mexico that supposedly made gloves for Grant under contract. Were I the attorney for Grant it is the glove maker I would put on notice not the eBay seller posting the gloves online. Grant has much more to lose from the maker who can reproduce the gloves than the seller of that reproduction. Second, there are tri-colored thumbed and triple cuffed boxing gloves everywhere. Why would Grant Worldwide, Inc send the seller of a few pairs of gloves they claim are infringing on their patent, a cease and desist letter, when there are some really big manufacturers of those gloves out there with deep pockets. I do know that there are only a couple of reliable sellers of genuine Mexican made boxing gloves on eBay. If you took all the gloves those sellers sell in a year and combined them, it still would not amount to the loss they incur from say Sabas, or New Sporting, or Leaders of Russian Boxer in a week. So the fact that you were sent a poorly worded email to get you to stop is highly suspicious. You know how to contact me if you want to discuss this more.
Very good post. Grant comes across really bad in this imo.
 
This appears to be a valid patent on the design of the the thumb. There is a jurisdictional issue here though that is apparent. A US patent, enforceable in federal court against the seller of a glove that may or may not be in violation of the patent who sells gloves through eBay and online through a website. I am a gear nerd and can think of 3 glove makers who violate this patent regularly. Again, the question remains-why pursue a Mexican citizen for selling gloves manufactured by a glove maker in Mexico. It would be worth noting which particular glove is the basis of the claim. As a glove nerd it would be revealing. The maker of the gloves may be a former or current glove maker for Grant. Grant is attempting to stop the selling of gloves that may be infringing on its patent. It appears that any and all tri-colored thumbs would fall under the protection of this patent. I have a pair of infinitude gloves that could be an infringement. Why Edgar, the end seller. They may be pursuing the maker as well for all we know. With the names of the patent attorneys on the patent, why send what could kindly be considered an inarticulate e-mail instead of having the attorney send a cease and desist letter on law firm stationary. At least law firm letterhead would be the imprimatur of authority and authenticity. We have ourselves a genuine legal dispute in hand here gentlemen. Great research Vol.
 
It looks like the patent is not specifically for a triple stripe thumb but how it matches up on a laceup glove with a triple cuff, where there's a "colour A / colour B / colour A " pattern on both simultaneously?
I’m really not sure to be honest with you, but I see what you’re saying. I’m definitely no expert on patents.
 
Hey
Thank you all @Inquisitus @Vols1891 @Badoldman @RDL81 @Minowafanatic for looking at this and helping me out with your opinions/ thoughts on this.
I think I've made the call in continuing my business-as-usual listings as I didn't got any response back from Grant, and their approach and contacting isn't professional and doesn't look very legit to me.
I will anyway let you know if any new or any issue that may happen :).
 
Hey
Thank you all @Inquisitus @Vols1891 @Badoldman @RDL81 @Minowafanatic for looking at this and helping me out with your opinions/ thoughts on this.
I think I've made the call in continuing my business-as-usual listings as I didn't got any response back from Grant, and their approach and contacting isn't professional and doesn't look very legit to me.
I will anyway let you know if any new or any issue that may happen :).
Yes Edgar, we need your gloves.
 
I've not read the full thread as it's a quick visit to sherdog haha.

But.....I only thought patent effects companies who make/manufacturer the glove I.e. NS, reyes, cassanova etc. Can they sue people who are just private sellers? When it's the other competitors are in fact manufacturing it and saying up yours to grants patent...i'd of thought they go directly to them instead the people on ebay that's why I think its a tad suspect.

Edit: just seen @Badoldman reply, I'm not a parrot I swear down
 
I've not read the full thread as it's a quick visit to sherdog haha.

But.....I only thought patent effects companies who make/manufacturer the glove I.e. NS, reyes, cassanova etc. Can they sue people who are just private sellers? When it's the other competitors are in fact manufacturing it and saying up yours to grants patent...i'd of thought they go directly to them instead the people on ebay that's why I think its a tad suspect.

Edit: just seen @Badoldman reply, I'm not a parrot I swear down

You can sue both, but usually makes more sense to sue the single manufacturers than 100 different sellers. Say it's a patent in the US and not Mexico, and the gloves are made in Mexico. You can't sue the makers because they aren't doing anything wrong. You have to sue the sellers who are enabling the patent infringement. That's not exactly the case here, but basically the spirit of why you can sue both. Same reason Walmart has to sell Hasbro Transformers and can't just sell knock offs made in Turkmenistan where the Hasbros patents may not exist.
 
You can sue both, but usually makes more sense to sue the single manufacturers than 100 different sellers. Say it's a patent in the US and not Mexico, and the gloves are made in Mexico. You can't sue the makers because they aren't doing anything wrong. You have to sue the sellers who are enabling the patent infringement. That's not exactly the case here, but basically the spirit of why you can sue both. Same reason Walmart has to sell Hasbro Transformers and can't just sell knock offs made in Turkmenistan where the Hasbros patents may not exist.
I have a pair of used gloves with a triple-striped thumb that I was thinking of selling on eBay. Since I am in the US, does this mean I technically cannot ever sell them? I am not sure if being new vs used makes a difference or not.
 
I have a pair of used gloves with a triple-striped thumb that I was thinking of selling on eBay. Since I am in the US, does this mean I technically cannot ever sell them? I am not sure if being new vs used makes a difference or not.

Hey @Vols1891

I don't think you may have any issue listing these on eBay. I've actually thought of this and if there may ever be an issue, I'm pretty sure it would first be eBay who may contact you. And again, pretty sure it may first be some kind of warning or removing your listing, but not facing a huge issue in your account.

Have you got pictures of the gloves you're selling? Just curious to see those :).

Edgar
 
I have a pair of used gloves with a triple-striped thumb that I was thinking of selling on eBay. Since I am in the US, does this mean I technically cannot ever sell them? I am not sure if being new vs used makes a difference or not.

I think you're good unless it's a straight up knock off fake you are passing off as the real thing (and even then it doesn't stop a lot of people). It's more if you are retailing the product through eBay. I wouldn't worry about a single pair you are looking to unload.
 
Hey @Vols1891

I don't think you may have any issue listing these on eBay. I've actually thought of this and if there may ever be an issue, I'm pretty sure it would first be eBay who may contact you. And again, pretty sure it may first be some kind of warning or removing your listing, but not facing a huge issue in your account.

Have you got pictures of the gloves you're selling? Just curious to see those :).

Edgar
These are the gloves. I actually decided to keep them. I was only go to sell them because I had a few unexpected expenses come up and needed a little extra cash, but I ended up just cutting back on some other expenses and am good now.
 

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@Edgar Martinez
I noticed Grant has started selling gloves on eBay again under the same account that messaged you. If you look at the description for the gloves, they are claiming they have a global patent on the triple stripe thumb. However, according to several posters here, there is no such thing as a global patent. See the first sentence of the second paragraph in the attached screenshot.
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This thread just proves Grant is rubbish. As much knock off and b grade and heavily damaged things are for sale on ebay, a glove brand is going to email a private user on an auction website about listing/selling their own property. TopBoxer has at least a dozen gloves with triple color thumbs on their IG page.
The funny thing is that Grant is known for their terrible customer service and not replying to emails and Facebook/eBay messages in a timely manner. Yet they take the time to message a private seller on eBay threatening legal action over a supposed “global patent”, which apparently doesn’t even exist as it is just a U.S. patent.
 
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