Movies Rocky Balboa or Darth Vader - Which is the greater character?

[ChickenBrother]

I think the Vader --> Anakin --> Vader evolution is more interesting that Rocky's Bum --> Superstar --> Mentor evolution. And the initial Darth Vader premise is more interesting than the Rocky premise. I think the acting in Rocky is much better than in most of the Star Wars films. But I think the Vader character has more depth than the Rocky one.

This. Both characters are great but Vader is the GOAT iconic movie character. Rocky is a solid pick but he's "boring" in that he's been the same for 50 years LMAO. To his credit, he's stayed true to his identity as humble underdog with blue collar work ethic. But he's never strayed from that. He gets momentarily depressed or distracted but quickly goes back to his bread and butter and that's enough to keep him in the win column.

Vader by contrast has probably the best damn character arc ever in SW E1-E6. The prequels and OT together should be renamed "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker." It's all about him. And Ewan's Obi Wan selling him in the prequels and now in the Obi Wan series really puts Vader over the top. Obi Wan dueling him again in the series, defeating him and then apologizing to him was fucking amazing. Scenes like that really elevate both characters to another level.

 

[BisexualMMA]

This. Both characters are great but Vader is the GOAT iconic movie character. Rocky is a solid pick but he's "boring" in that he's been the same for 50 years LMAO. To his credit, he's stayed true to his identity as humble underdog with blue collar work ethic. But he's never strayed from that.

Straying from that is what Rocky 3 was all about to be fair.

 

[Mack McMarkles]

Wow, right down the middle. This is a battle

End it now. i just cast the tie breaker and Rocky wins this.

/Poll

 

[ChickenBrother]

Straying from that is what Rocky 3 was all about to be fair.

While this is true, he goes back to his roots shortly after and ends the movie in the same place he was in the previous two movies - after overcoming a seemingly invincible opponent in the ring. Every movie is compartmentalized like that without taking any real risks with the character. The Rocky movies are unquestionably better-acted and shit all over SW if we're talking serious movie drama, however.

 

[BisexualMMA]

While this is true, he goes back to his roots shortly after and ends the movie in the same place he was in the previous two movies - after overcoming a seemingly invincible opponent in the ring. Every movie is compartmentalized like that without taking any real risks with the character. The Rocky movies are unquestionably better-acted and shit all over SW if we're talking serious movie drama, however.

A lot of the run time of Rocky 3 is spent with Rocky having lost his way from the first two movies. The whole movie up until Adrian's talk with him on the beach.

I would say that Rocky takes a few more risks with the character than you give it credit for. It could have just been mentally strong or character unflawed Rocky going against external obstacle after external obstacle in movie after movie. But his mental weakness and success going to his head is an internal character flaw to overcome for Rocky 3. Becoming a father that ignores his son for a substitute to his own previous fame and fortune is the obstacle in Rocky 5.

There's a little more going on there than nothing at all anyway.

 

[Crawler89]

Vader the goat.

Throw in the character building that rebels/clone wars/obi wan and he'll even the cannon comics added and it's incredible.

The dude who said vader killing palps threw away 20 years of his life etc...that was the point.

Emperor Palps was abusive and manipulating Vader at any chance, whose down fall all came from his ambition and wanting to learn how to save people/bring padme (and even his mother back)

It's why even his suit was designed to help him live but was painful. Cause the suffering leads to anger and misguidance which palps manipulates further

Plus don't act like you didn't go nuts for his obi scenes and rogue one.

Ya ain't doing that for any rocky movie

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

The vote results is awesome, I love it when it's a tie.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Plus don't act like you didn't go nuts for his obi scenes and rogue one.

Ya ain't doing that for any rocky movie

Bro I don't think you know how many people took up boxing as a hobby or even career because of a Rocky movie.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

Vader duh.

He's got a fucking lightsaber. He can also force choke you.

Balboa lost to Clubber Lang the first fight, remember that.

 

[ChickenBrother]

A lot of the run time of Rocky 3 is spent with Rocky having lost his way from the first two movies. The whole movie up until Adrian's talk with him on the beach.

I would say that Rocky takes a few more risks with the character than you give it credit for. It could have just been mentally strong or character unflawed Rocky going against external obstacle after external obstacle in movie after movie. But his mental weakness and success going to his head is an internal character flaw to overcome for Rocky 3. Becoming a father that ignores his son for a substitute to his own previous fame and fortune is the obstacle in Rocky 5.

There's a little more going on there than nothing at all anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Rocky movies and coincidentally I just watched Rocky 3 again a few days ago. I'm not saying they take NO risks with the character but since we're comparing him to Vader, can you honestly say Vader doesn't have a deeper, more nuanced character arc than Rocky does across all the movies he's in?

I mean we've seen Vader's entire life story and he went from slave to upstart defender of the galaxy, to the galaxy's [second] biggest asshole and then back to a loyal father protecting his son. It's hard to have a deeper story arc than that. Rocky might have him if they'd also thrown in some jail time for terrorizing daycare kids while wearing a Scream mask, been busted for selling PEDs to other boxers as a distributor conspiring with the Russian anti-doping authority, cut off his son's hand, hid under the boxing ring when USADA came to test him, bragged about sandblasting prostitutes the week before fighting Drago and then did more jail time for beating Adrian within an inch of her life because she had a three-way with Apollo and Thunderlips.

 

[Crawler89]

Bro I don't think you know how many people took up boxing as a hobby or even career because of a Rocky movie.

Oh no I get it.

But that kinda thing also leads to what had more of a cultural impact, rocky or star wars, which vader and Luke were the most sacred characters?

It's Sherdog so it's gonna skew more towards the rocky franchise.

And don't get Me wrong at all. I love rocky 1-4 and even got the bathrobe that I wear haha

 

[ChickenBrother]

Bro I don't think you know how many people took up boxing as a hobby or even career because of a Rocky movie.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Rocky movies and coincidentally I just watched Rocky 3 again a few days ago. I'm not saying they take NO risks with the character but since we're comparing him to Vader, can you honestly say Vader doesn't have a deeper, more nuanced character arc than Rocky does in all the movies he's in?

I mean we've seen Vader's entire life story and he went from slave to upstart defender of the galaxy, to the galaxy's [second] biggest asshole and then back to a loyal father protecting his son. It's hard to have a deeper story arc than that. Rocky might have him if they'd also thrown in some jail time for terrorizing daycare kids while wearing a Scream mask, been busted for selling PEDs to other boxers as a distributor conspiring with the Russian anti-doping authority, cut off his son's hand, hid under the boxing ring when USADA came to test him, bragged about sandblasting prostitutes the week before fighting Drago and then did more jail time for beating Adrian within an inch of her life because she had a three-way with Apollo and Thunderlips.

Vader definitely has a bigger arc in absolute terms...slave to #2 in the universe and so on. As to more nuanced...I don't know. Is Vader's arc actually very nuanced? I wouldn't really say so.

I think stuff like Rocky declining Gazzo's offer to make more money on the streets again in Rocky 2 is nuance. Learning to fight right handed to compensate for the damage from the first Apollo beating is nuance.

Anakin's story from child slave to Vader is by and large told with very broad brush strokes. Super innocent kid - super talented young man - falls head over heels in love with woman and expresses it with less nuance than AI generated romantic talk - becomes super evil and murderous. And he largely just suddenly jumps to each of those points at some point in the series as opposed to working his way there with gradual nuance.

 

[LEWIS540]

Rocky from Rocky 1 and Vader from The Empire Strikes Back, are legit 2 of the greatest movie characters ever.

Both been massively diluted though, particularly Vader.

 

[Crawler89]

Vader definitely has a bigger arc in absolute terms...slave to #2 in the universe and so on. As to more nuanced...I don't know. Is Vader's arc actually very nuanced? I wouldn't really say so.

I think stuff like Rocky declining Gazzo's offer to make more money on the streets again in Rocky 2 is nuance. Learning to fight right handed to compensate for the damage from the first Apollo beating is nuance.

Anakin's story from child slave to Vader is by and large told with very broad brush strokes. Super innocent kid - super talented young man - falls head over heels in love with woman and expresses it with less nuance than AI generated romantic talk - becomes super evil and murderous. And he largely just suddenly jumps to each of those points at some point in the series as opposed to working his way there with gradual nuance.

Over simplifying it really, but the ones you said about rocky to me are just sport movie cliches too

Even as a youngling, the seeds were planted that vader had abandonment issues and didn't want to leave his mom. Then later in the movie his saviour/only believer/father figure dies. Him falling for Padme is more of him falling out with the order and trying to navigate the dark/light whilst being manipulated by palps

Anyways, I'm sure you could do the same stupid fan boy analysis for Rocky I can do for vader and I'm not interested in going down a route of this all turning into flame wars

Hail Rocky
Hail vader
Hail yourself!

 

[ChickenBrother]

Vader definitely has a bigger arc in absolute terms...slave to #2 in the universe and so on. As to more nuanced...I don't know. Is Vader's arc actually very nuanced? I wouldn't really say so.

I think stuff like Rocky declining Gazzo's offer to make more money on the streets again in Rocky 2 is nuance. Learning to fight right handed to compensate for the damage from the first Apollo beating is nuance.

Anakin's story from child slave to Vader is by and large told with very broad brush strokes. Super innocent kid - super talented young man - falls head over heels in love with woman and expresses it with less nuance than AI generated romantic talk - becomes super evil and murderous. And he largely just suddenly jumps to each of those points at some point in the series as opposed to working his way there with gradual nuance.

Things like the Gazzo offer is exactly my point. Rocky considers it but is too much of a goody good to go back to that kind of work. Rocky never really goes full dark side, even in his moments of self-doubt in each movie. Were he to have a character arc like Vader's, he would have accepted and spent 20 years as a mob enforcer and made man while also taking fights, before going back to the "light side" and continuing the story from Rocky V on.

I don't know man. SW and Rocky are such different franchises that it's impossible to compare them apples to apples. Personally I think Vader is a greater character but I'm cool if you or anyone else prefers Rocky. There's no wrong choice here.

Rocky from Rocky 1 and Vader from The Empire Strikes Back, are legit 2 of the greatest movie characters ever.

Both been massively diluted though, particularly Vader.

Bruh. They're adding more nuance to his character here. What a badass.

 

[pakimahi]

"It aint how hard you're hit.." vs "Luke Im your father".. come on there no comparison. Vader should be competing with Bane. And even then I'd give the nod to Bane

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

"It aint how hard you're hit.." vs "Luke Im your father".. come on there no comparison. Vader should be competing with Bane. And even then I'd give the nod to Bane

The only reason I'm comparing them is because of this.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...est-character-finals-double-overtime.4240516/

 

[NoSmilez]

There is no real depth to Rocky.

 

[Arqueto]

Love Rocky but c'mon. Darth Vader all day long.