Social Shocked woman argues in viral video as naked 'man' enters LA spa's women's section

i second this. progressives need to get out of fantasy land and see this bullshit for what it is and admit its happening.

@Prefect
#NotallProgressives.

I'm pro trans rights, but there are progressives that are walking on eggshells whenever talking about trans issues and society...instead of saying the obvious truth, because they want to appear to be supportive and an ally.
When it comes to sports, relationships, children, and intimate places like spas and restrooms, you don't have a right to force yourself on people, regardless of the circumstances of how you were born.
If you have a dick, you can't go to a female spa, no matter what gender you identify as.

On the other side, we would be able to have real conversations if conservatives would actually do some reading on the science and stop just saying everything is "sicko degenerate crazy leftist science".
If we could get past arguing whether or not something is real, we could actually talk about and focus on the rules that need to be in place when talking about things like sports and children.
Instead, most of the debate is the right saying "trannys are gross", and the trans crying and asking for a right to exist. It's a useless argument that helps to allow shit like this to happen.
 
#NotallProgressives.

I'm pro trans rights, but there are progressives that are walking on eggshells whenever talking about trans issues and society...instead of saying the obvious truth, because they want to appear to be supportive and an ally.
When it comes to sports, relationships, children, and intimate places like spas and restrooms, you don't have a right to force yourself on people, regardless of the circumstances of how you were born.
If you have a dick, you can't go to a female spa, no matter what gender you identify as.

On the other side, we would be able to have real conversations if conservatives would actually do some reading on the science and stop just saying everything is "sicko degenerate crazy leftist science".
If we could get past arguing whether or not something is real, we could actually talk about and focus on the rules that need to be in place when talking about things like sports and children.
Instead, most of the debate is the right saying "trannys are gross", and the trans crying and asking for a right to exist. It's a useless argument that helps to allow shit like this to happen.


I think we mostly agree. I also support certain transgender rights especially those that would protect them from ceuelty and exclusion from employment.

But honestly as far as online culture goes its the left that i think is the stupidest and most cowardly. Most people on the left either naively support things that are immoral and unjust or just wont engage at all in honest discussion about the topic.

Of the two extreems ill take the right any day over the left. At leaste they recognize the very real dangers of a slipping morality and the quickly changing overton window when it comes to sexuality and morals.

the extreem right can only exist when they have totall stupidity bordering on insanity on the left to attack.

When you understand that most of the left doesnt even recognize a stable foundation for morality or human beings ability to adjust and accept what exists in popular culture and a large portion of humanities need to push the envelope and push the limits mostly due to a selfish and hedonistic impulse to experiene excitement then you start to see that there is no bottom to all of this. Nobody is safe, no group is protected and literally anything can be justified and allowed in the insanity of a shifting overton window.

i recently watched a group of progressives on this site shit on people taking the basic stance that porn is bad for kids to see. Fuck anybody that can be that ignorant and stupid. When your mind is so warped by watching porn durring childhood that you think its not harmful or that it is good you have lost your way entirely.


Phone post so there will be misspellings.
 
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just have everything be unisex. problem solved.
 
I think we mostly agree. I also support certain transgender rights especially those that would protect them frim ceuelty and exclusion from employment.

But honestly as far as online culture goes its the left that i think is the stupidest and most cowardly. Most people on the left either naively support things that are immoral and unjust or just wont engage at all in honest discussion about the topic.

Of the two extreems ill take the right any day over the left. At leaste they recognize the very real dangers of a slipping morality and the quickly changing overton window when it comes to sexuality and morals.

the extreem right can only exist when they have totall stupidity bordering on insanity on the left to attack.

When you understand that most of the left doesnt even recognize a stable foundation for morality or human beings ability to adjust and accept what exists in popular culture and a large portion of humanities need to push the envelope and push the limits mostly due to a selfish and hedonistic impulse to experiene excitement then you start to see that there is no bottom to all of this. Nobody is safe, no group is protected and literally anything can be justified and allowed in the insanity of a shifting overton window.

i recently watched a group of progressives on this site shit on people taking the basic stance that porn is bad for kids to see. Fuck anybody that can be that ignorant and stupid. When your mind is so warped by watching porn durring childhood that you think its not harmful or that it is good you have lost your way entirely.


Phone post so there will be misspellings.

I think that the onus is largely on the left to clearly state our positions, and silence the bullshit from our side. One of my biggest frustrations with progressives is the absolute dogshit level of communication and awareness of their audience, and how change actually happens. You can't force something through in a democratic system, even if there was a way to prove you are a 100% factually correct.
There's a lack of unity, clarity, and clear messaging from the left, especially when compared to the right.
But, in fairness, "the left" represents a much larger variation of people.
We are also too often letting Twitter and cllips from protests be used as if they are what represents your average person.


Extremes in any way or bad, but I don't see the right being the better option. Because whether the topic was about LGBQT, race, or social programs, or the environment, etc,----the extreme right position would be that "There is no problem" , or that it's not a problem for the government to solve.
I think I'd have an easier time of talking down a "well meaning" dumbdumb lefty, than I would a person that won't even acknowledge that a problems exists, or that it's something they should concern themselves with.
If the choice were 'this problem never gets addressed' or ' this problem gets hyperfocused on', I think the latter is more preferable.
Ignoring the existence of the problem isn't going to make it go away.

The extreme right doesn't need the stupditiy or insanity of the extreme left to exist. Joe Biden is being called a socialist. The right reacts to whatever the left does with an extreme reaction.

I'm legit curious to read this defense of porn being shown to kids if you have a direction you can point me in.
 
I think that the onus is largely on the left to clearly state our positions, and silence the bullshit from our side. One of my biggest frustrations with progressives is the absolute dogshit level of communication and awareness of their audience, and how change actually happens. You can't force something through in a democratic system, even if there was a way to prove you are a 100% factually correct.
There's a lack of unity, clarity, and clear messaging from the left, especially when compared to the right.
But, in fairness, "the left" represents a much larger variation of people.
We are also too often letting Twitter and cllips from protests be used as if they are what represents your average person.


Extremes in any way or bad, but I don't see the right being the better option. Because whether the topic was about LGBQT, race, or social programs, or the environment, etc,----the extreme right position would be that "There is no problem" , or that it's not a problem for the government to solve.
I think I'd have an easier time of talking down a "well meaning" dumbdumb lefty, than I would a person that won't even acknowledge that a problems exists, or that it's something they should concern themselves with.
If the choice were 'this problem never gets addressed' or ' this problem gets hyperfocused on', I think the latter is more preferable.
Ignoring the existence of the problem isn't going to make it go away.

The extreme right doesn't need the stupditiy or insanity of the extreme left to exist. Joe Biden is being called a socialist. The right reacts to whatever the left does with an extreme reaction.

I'm legit curious to read this defense of porn being shown to kids if you have a direction you can point me in.


Read my sig and maybe someone here can remember the thread title. It was about a woman who recomended producing porn with less violence so its more suitable for kids to see. Dont listen to a word any lefties say about the thread because they were being lying obfuscating cunts about it. Just read the whole thread in context.


You mixed some issues in your reply. Im a progressive also but here am only talking about social issues and not econimic ones or climate related ones where i competely agree with the progressive stances.

Ill still take the extreem right over the left on issues related to sexuality though because the overton window wont stop shifting until pedophelia is on the table. If anyone thinks thats a fear based perspective then they are not paying attention to the already shifting winds.

Under traditional morality the worst we had to deal with was the persecution of a very small minority of people who kept most of their sexual things hidden because of it. That is a terrible thing and if I ever witnessed persecution or bullying of a transgender or homosexual person I would risk my own safety to defend them. I really mean that.

However if the extreme left wins the argument there will be no end to the debauchery and sexual immorality that will exist in this country and kids will not be safe from it.

If that sounds crazy I think you're not paying attention . there are already threads popping up regularly arguing for the age of consent to be lower and lower. People cant be bothered to make sure no pics are underage in the variouse hot woman threads on this sight. There are more and more jokes about how it's OK to find kids attractive. The window is already shifting. It's disgusting and I blame pornography primarily for all of this because empty meaningless sexual gratification must seek out ever lower standards and exploitation in order to get off.
 
I think that the onus is largely on the left to clearly state our positions, and silence the bullshit from our side. One of my biggest frustrations with progressives is the absolute dogshit level of communication and awareness of their audience, and how change actually happens. You can't force something through in a democratic system, even if there was a way to prove you are a 100% factually correct.
There's a lack of unity, clarity, and clear messaging from the left, especially when compared to the right.
.
This is how you get labelled a conservative, by trying to keep your own house clean. A big reason why many liberals are migrating to the right as the left is becoming a religous cult. Left and right aren't synonymous with liberal/conservative anymore.

And once you've become labelled as the "other", your opinions and criticisms don't count as your agenda is to harm the movement, clearly. The new left uses accusations of heresy more than most religions. Face it, they've become what they hate the most. I'm a liberal by any definition of the word, but no fucking way will I side with a dogmatic movement such as the current North American "left". Utter authoritarian closed minded garbage that's a carbon copy of intolerant religous lunatics. And they're getting worse.
 
Read my sig and maybe someone here can remember the thread title. It was about a woman who recomended producing porn with less violence so its more suitable for kids to see. Dont listen to a word any lefties say about the thread because they were being lying obfuscating cunts about it. Just read the whole thread in context.


You mixed some issues in your reply. Im a progressive also but here am only talking about social issues and not econimic ones or climate related ones where i competely agree with the progressive stances.

Ill still take the extreem right over the left on issues related to sexuality though because the overton window wont stop shifting until pedophelia is on the table. If anyone thinks thats a fear based perspective then they are not paying attention to the already shifting winds.

Under traditional morality the worst we had to deal with was the persecution of a very small minority of people who kept most of their sexual things hidden because of it. That is a terrible thing and if I ever witnessed persecution or bullying of a transgender or homosexual person I would risk my own safety to defend them. I really mean that.

However if the extreme left wins the argument there will be no end to the debauchery and sexual immorality that will exist in this country and kids will not be safe from it.

If that sounds crazy I think you're not paying attention . there are already threads popping up regularly arguing for the age of consent to be lower and lower. People cant be bothered to make sure no pics are underage in the variouse hot woman threads on this sight. There are more and more jokes about how it's OK to find kids attractive. The window is already shifting. It's disgusting and I blame pornography primarily for all of this because empty meaningless sexual gratification must seek out ever lower standards and exploitation in order to get off.

I don't think that it's a fear based perspective, but I also don't think it's helpful or suitable to base our politics on the extremes of other people, and what they may or may not do in the future..especially when they are a minority.
Being for one extreme over another just puts you in another shitty extreme position.

I could very well see some dipshit unironically defend pedophilia in the future---and that would be the time for every non-dipshit, regardless of your political leanings to tell that person to STFU----not the time to go more right in order to distance yourself from a crazy minority.

But I also think we need to separate intellectual conversations about sensitive subjects from actually advocating for things.
You should be able to have a discussion about topics without automatically being branded as a crazy that is for/against _______.
And there's a lot of times where these conversations and asking questions on "decided" science and norms in regards to biology and society are being used as ammunition to attack and frame people as satanic degenerates.
If a person were to say that a 15 year old would have been married and with child 100 years ago in _______, that doesn't automatically mean that is an endorsement of that happening today.
There's a big difference between talking about and having conversations about sex, and then actually advocating for certain things to happen in society.
An acknowledgement of some dirty things in human nature/biology, doesn't mean that we allow our lizard brains to take control and permit them in society.
 
This is how you get labelled a conservative, by trying to keep your own house clean. A big reason why many liberals are migrating to the right as the left is becoming a religous cult. Left and right aren't synonymous with liberal/conservative anymore.

And once you've become labelled as the "other", your opinions and criticisms don't count as your agenda is to harm the movement, clearly. The new left uses accusations of heresy more than most religions. Face it, they've become what they hate the most. I'm a liberal by any definition of the word, but no fucking way will I side with a dogmatic movement such as the current North American "left". Utter authoritarian closed minded garbage that's a carbon copy of intolerant religous lunatics. And they're getting worse.

Yeah, I can't disagree on this point.
Watching that lady being surrounded, yelled at , and called a "transphobe" while she's protesting against having dicks in front of her, her daughters, and other women in a nude spa was disgusting to watch.
And that's the exact kind of cult like behavior that turns the regular, moderate people off and moves them right.

I think it is important to remember that these people are just a loud minority though. And there's entirely too much of people basing their politics on what other ppeople believe, instead of the actual issues.

Unfortunately, in my experience with talking to people like this, they don't tend to listen to reason unless someone from the group they're "protecting" sets them straight.
 
I don't think that it's a fear based perspective, but I also don't think it's helpful or suitable to base our politics on the extremes of other people, and what they may or may not do in the future..especially when they are a minority.
Being for one extreme over another just puts you in another shitty extreme position.

I could very well see some dipshit unironically defend pedophilia in the future---and that would be the time for every non-dipshit, regardless of your political leanings to tell that person to STFU----not the time to go more right in order to distance yourself from a crazy minority.

But I also think we need to separate intellectual conversations about sensitive subjects from actually advocating for things.
You should be able to have a discussion about topics without automatically being branded as a crazy that is for/against _______.
And there's a lot of times where these conversations and asking questions on "decided" science and norms in regards to biology and society are being used as ammunition to attack and frame people as satanic degenerates.
If a person were to say that a 15 year old would have been married and with child 100 years ago in _______, that doesn't automatically mean that is an endorsement of that happening today.
There's a big difference between talking about and having conversations about sex, and then actually advocating for certain things to happen in society.
An acknowledgement of some dirty things in human nature/biology, doesn't mean that we allow our lizard brains to take control and permit them in society.


Well again i think we mostly agree. I cannot accept your position about separating where we might be going from policy now though. Why? Because by the time we get to pedophilia being justified publicly the overton window will habe shiftes such that the argument will benlost. It is now that we must draw firm lines and those lines WAY before we get to pedophilia.

Violent porn is already accepted and there is no winning that argument. The time for that argument was durring the acceptance of porn in the first place years and years ago.

Separating where this is headed from policy now is naive.

How long before a modern day Plato or Aristotle steps forward arguing about the virtues of grown men having sex with young boys? Arguing that it is a true good fo rsocoety.

Once you allow the slippery slope you have already lost. I think it is already.

In the thread I mentioned many very intelligent arguments were used to obfuscate and hise from the fact that some of those posters believed 12 years old was an appropriate age for introducing young men to pornography and that that would be good for their sexuality.

Thats pathetic.
 
Yeah, I can't disagree on this point.
Watching that lady being surrounded, yelled at , and called a "transphobe" while she's protesting against having dicks in front of her, her daughters, and other women in a nude spa was disgusting to watch.
And that's the exact kind of cult like behavior that turns the regular, moderate people off and moves them right.

I think it is important to remember that these people are just a loud minority though. And there's entirely too much of people basing their politics on what other ppeople believe, instead of the actual issues.

Unfortunately, in my experience with talking to people like this, they don't tend to listen to reason unless someone from the group they're "protecting" sets them straight.
In an era when black people can be called white supremacists or devout Jews Nazis without the accusers blinking an eye I can't agree with your last paragraph.

I do agree that these people are a disproportionately loud minority, yet most people tend not to actually give matters much thought so they go along with the loudest voices. We're social animals and people get weirded out by the thought of asserting their individuality. Peer pressure is a thing and many people don't want to be outcasts from their tribes. A person is smart, but people are stupid, to paraphrase Agent K.
 
Well again i think we mostly agree. I cannot accept your position about separating where we might be going from policy now though. Why? Because by the time we get to pedophilia being justified publicly the overton window will habe shiftes such that the argument will benlost. It is now that we must draw firm lines and those lines WAY before we get to pedophilia.

Violent porn is already accepted and there is no winning that argument. The time for that argument was durring the acceptance of porn in the first place years and years ago.

Separating where this is headed from policy now is naive.

How long before a modern day Plato or Aristotle steps forward arguing about the virtues of grown men having sex with young boys? Arguing that it is a true good fo rsocoety.

Once you allow the slippery slope you have already lost. I think it is already.

In the thread I mentioned many very intelligent arguments were used to obfuscate and hise from the fact that some of those posters believed 12 years old was an appropriate age for introducing young men to pornography and that that would be good for their sexuality.

Thats pathetic.

I'd have to find and read this thread you're talking about, because it seems to be the thing that is partly fueling your argument/emotion on the topic. I can only speak more generally on my thoughts on the matter. I hear what you're saying, but I would guess that the people you argued with wouldn't frame their arguments in the way that you are.

But I believe the argument can only be lost if reasonable people take unreasonable stances. Fighting extremism with extremism doesn't stamp out extremism on either side--it just makes each side go harder in the extremism.
And Okaying pedophilia is about as extreme as you can get...and there is no way that that would ever become acceptable.
You draw firm lines on things that need firm lines---not preemptively put down lines to make arbitrary borders on what is and isn't acceptable discourse.
But that's just my opinion.
 
In an era when black people can be called white supremacists or devout Jews Nazis without the accusers blinking an eye I can't agree with your last paragraph.

I do agree that these people are a disproportionately loud minority, yet most people tend not to actually give matters much thought so they go along with the loudest voices. We're social animals and people get weirded out by the thought of asserting their individuality. Peer pressure is a thing and many people don't want to be outcasts from their tribes. A person is smart, but people are stupid, to paraphrase Agent K.

I hear ya. But you got to have these conversations with these people directly, face to face, one on one. These conversations aren't going to happen at a protest, or on CNN. I'm a black guy (half) that has checked some of these good meaning folks on some of their cringe and ignorant rhetoric when trying to be an "ally" to minorities.
It's a big difference in how they take my words vs. how they take another white person's.
If someone in the trans community was intelligently and fairly speaking on these issues, these same people wouldn't be able to shout her down. But these people aren't going to accept someone like a Katelyn Jenner when she supports a party that doesn't even accept her as a person.

I know other black conservatives on Youtube that would get listened to as well--but it's the grifting turds like Candace Owens or Jesse Lee Peterson, or Silk and Diamond that get the spotlight and are seen as the representatives of black conservatives because they'll say every ridiculous rightwing talking point that exists. And rightfully, no one will take them seriously.
It'd be a lot harder to call someone like Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman a "white supremacist" if they spoke more publicly about their political beliefs.

I largely agree with your last paragraph there. I think for the left, most people don't want to offend when it's over and issue that doesn't have a direct effect on themselves. So when it comes to a minority wanting equal/civil rights, most people on the left aren't going to stand in the way of, or question the narrative because they're trying to show support.
But yeah , the more people you gather in one spot, the faster the average IQ tends to drop. We need that individual thinking to go through the information so that we're not just acting on and following feelings
 
I'd have to find and read this thread you're talking about, because it seems to be the thing that is partly fueling your argument/emotion on the topic. I can only speak more generally on my thoughts on the matter. I hear what you're saying, but I would guess that the people you argued with wouldn't frame their arguments in the way that you are.

But I believe the argument can only be lost if reasonable people take unreasonable stances. Fighting extremism with extremism doesn't stamp out extremism on either side--it just makes each side go harder in the extremism.
And Okaying pedophilia is about as extreme as you can get...and there is no way that that would ever become acceptable.
You draw firm lines on things that need firm lines---not preemptively put down lines to make arbitrary borders on what is and isn't acceptable discourse.
But that's just my opinion.


I think if you read that thread you might allow sophistry and obfuscation to blind you to the bottom line.. But at least one progressive explicitly stated that pornography for boys who hit puberty is good. And that thread was responded to positively by a number of other progressives who didn't have the balls to say it straight out. It was stated explicitly in that thread. And that is the point. The overton window is already shifting.

Also i am not defending extreemism and have not. Im saying of the two extreems the left is far more dangerouse on these isses than the right and ive stated why too.

You draw firm lines conserervatively knowing that human nature will always cross the lines. You want people's conscience to start tinging before they get to direct exploitation of humans. And most importantly you want social pressures in place to enforce those lines.

But I don't find anything degenerate about what you are saying it is perfectly reasonable. I disagree with some of it but so what.

What is your opinion on pornography for 12 and 13 year olds by the way what do you say about that? Is it good for kids, natural and normal?
 
I hear ya. But you got to have these conversations with these people directly, face to face, one on one. These conversations aren't going to happen at a protest, or on CNN. I'm a black guy (half) that has checked some of these good meaning folks on some of their cringe and ignorant rhetoric when trying to be an "ally" to minorities.
It's a big difference in how they take my words vs. how they take another white person's.
If someone in the trans community was intelligently and fairly speaking on these issues, these same people wouldn't be able to shout her down. But these people aren't going to accept someone like a Katelyn Jenner when she supports a party that doesn't even accept her as a person.

I know other black conservatives on Youtube that would get listened to as well--but it's the grifting turds like Candace Owens or Jesse Lee Peterson, or Silk and Diamond that get the spotlight and are seen as the representatives of black conservatives because they'll say every ridiculous rightwing talking point that exists. And rightfully, no one will take them seriously.
It'd be a lot harder to call someone like Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman a "white supremacist" if they spoke more publicly about their political beliefs.

I largely agree with your last paragraph there. I think for the left, most people don't want to offend when it's over and issue that doesn't have a direct effect on themselves. So when it comes to a minority wanting equal/civil rights, most people on the left aren't going to stand in the way of, or question the narrative because they're trying to show support.
But yeah , the more people you gather in one spot, the faster the average IQ tends to drop. We need that individual thinking to go through the information so that we're not just acting on and following feelings
"It's a big difference in how they take my words vs. how they take another white person's. "

And situations like that is where I get absolutely aggressive. Discounting my opinion based on skin colour? Fuck those racists. There's millions upon millions of white people alive, right now, who have seen much worse than many minorities who grew up in North America.

Other than that, as usual good post. We're pretty much on the same page here like most of the time.
 
"It's a big difference in how they take my words vs. how they take another white person's. "

And situations like that is where I get absolutely aggressive. Discounting my opinion based on skin colour? Fuck those racists. There's millions upon millions of white people alive, right now, who have seen much worse than many minorities who grew up in North America.

Other than that, as usual good post. We're pretty much on the same page here like most of the time.

I think they're discounting what they think your experience is from the frame of America and American history.
I do get that, especially when talking about issues of groups of people that I am not a part of, nor have direct experience. That doesn't necessarily mean that other groups have not suffered abuse as well.
It shouldn't really matter though in the end. A good or bad argument is what it is, no matter whose mouth it's coming out of.
At the bare minimum, everyone's argument should be heard out--and people definitely shouldn't be shouted down to "shut up if they aren't black/gay/etc.
But yea, good chat. We're pretty much on the same page.
 
I think if you read that thread you might allow sophistry and obfuscation to blind you to the bottom line.. But at least one progressive explicitly stated that pornography for boys who hit puberty is good. And that thread was responded to positively by a number of other progressives who didn't have the balls to say it straight out. It was stated explicitly in that thread. And that is the point. The overton window is already shifting.

Also i am not defending extreemism and have not. Im saying of the two extreems the left is far more dangerouse on these isses than the right and ive stated why too.

You draw firm lines conserervatively knowing that human nature will always cross the lines. You want people's conscience to start tinging before they get to direct exploitation of humans. And most importantly you want social pressures in place to enforce those lines.

But I don't find anything degenerate about what you are saying it is perfectly reasonable. I disagree with some of it but so what.

What is your opinion on pornography for 12 and 13 year olds by the way what do you say about that? Is it good for kids, natural and normal?

I'm pretty unapologetically very left on most issues, but even I don't agree with every lefty on this board. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a hot/cringe take that I disagreed with. I have an idea of where that person's thought process may have been going....(not that I agree), but I'd have to read the thread for myself to check my suspicions.

I think we disagree on human nature--because I don't think that human nature will always cross the lines if basic foundations are set. I think we should be constantly challenging ourselves and each other with thought and conversation, so that we aren't so easily swayed by emotion. You don't get there by shutting down conversations, which is what going far right would do. (that happens in a different way on the left)
When things come up, you talk about them open and honestly. Call stupid things stupid when appropriate, and then they don't get to go past that. Crazies will always exist, and I'd rather they operate in open than in the shadows.

If I had a kid, they would likely have an old Nokia flip phone until they were 16 at least. Their brains aren't mature enough to carry around a device like that at all times at that age, imo. So, no, there would be no porn for a 12 year old. I don't think it is good for kids, but I think it could become "normal" if a bunch of 12 year old boys that have access to it get together to do what immature 12 year old boys do.
 
I'm pretty unapologetically very left on most issues, but even I don't agree with every lefty on this board. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a hot/cringe take that I disagreed with. I have an idea of where that person's thought process may have been going....(not that I agree), but I'd have to read the thread for myself to check my suspicions.

I think we disagree on human nature--because I don't think that human nature will always cross the lines if basic foundations are set. I think we should be constantly challenging ourselves and each other with thought and conversation, so that we aren't so easily swayed by emotion. You don't get there by shutting down conversations, which is what going far right would do.
When things come up, you talk about them open and honestly. Call stupid things stupid when appropriate, and then they don't get to go past that. Crazies will always exist, and I'd rather they operate in open than in the shadows.

If I had a kid, they would likely have an old Nokia flip phone until they were 16 at least. Their brains aren't mature enough to carry around a device like that at all times at that age, imo. So, no, there would be no porn for a 12 year old. I don't think it is good for kids, but I think it could become "normal" if a bunch of 12 year old boys that have access to it get together to do what immature 12 year old boys do.


We are basically on the same page then friend even down to the limiting of access to the internet which progreesives on this board think is being naive.

I don't know any parents who don't have serious restrictions on Internet time and the location in which they view the Internet which needs to be in the living room with family around.

Most of the progressives I was talking to said they watched porn all growing up starting at a young age. I'm not surprised they have the views they do with parenting that terrible.

And I think you are right about human nature. I should always be more clear than I am I think. Lots of humans won't push the boundaries just because they can. I wont. But another very large portion of them will and those are the ones who are shifting the window right now.

Anyway you are a wonderful poster to speak with and I appreciate your thoughts.
 
We are basically on the same page then friend even down to the limiting of access to the internet which progreesives on this board think is being naive.

I don't know any parents who don't have serious restrictions on Internet time and the location in which they view the Internet which needs to be in the living room with family around.

Most of the progressives I was talking to said they watched porn all growing up starting at a young age. I'm not surprised they have the views they do with parenting that terrible.

And I think you are right about human nature. I should always be more clear than I am I think. Lots of humans won't push the boundaries just because they can. I wont. But another very large portion of them will and those are the ones who are shifting the window right now.

Anyway you are a wonderful poster to speak with and I appreciate your thoughts.
It feels like the porn argument is similar to the argument I hear about people letting their kids watch rated R movies filled with gore , cursing, and sex.
That "it's there/there''s no use in hiding it, it's part of life, and they'll eventually see it anyways, so if they are going to watch it, at least they see it at home/with me."
It's an argument that I understand, but one that I've always felt is very poor.

Anyways, good chatting with you too, man. It's late/early where I am, so have a good one.
 
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