Opinion Should Capital be taxed like wages?

How should capital gains be taxed compared to labor?


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PolishHeadlock2

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Good piece by George Will on how Capital Gains are currently taxed and how Senator Wyden would like to tax them along with the growing deficit under the current administration.

Touches on how capital gains aren't taxed until they are realized (cashed in) and the wealthy use the favorable "Death Tax" to avoid capital gains taxes and pass them off to their heirs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...81f02a-5287-11ea-b119-4faabac6674f_story.html

If next February, Democrats control the presidency and both houses of Congress — this is neither probable nor highly improbable — the legislative branch’s most consequential member might be the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Oregon’s Ron Wyden, 70, and in his fifth term, understands the patience that politics both requires and rewards. He is spending 2020 tilling the political soil in Congress and the private sector to earn at least a hearing for a momentous proposal: taxation of unrealized capital gains.

His contention is implied by the title of his explanatory booklet, “Treat Wealth Like Wages.” Wage earners pay taxes as they earn. Those whose wealth is in the form of capital should pay taxes on it as it appreciates. And as a necessary corollary, they should be able to deduct losses on held assets that have declined in value.

Wyden, whose proposal would apply only to those with more than $1 million in annual income or $10 million in assets for three consecutive years, says that 72 percent of realized capital gains go to taxpayers with annual incomes of more than $500,000; that in 2018 almost 70 percent of realized capital gains went to the wealthiest 1 percent; and that more than 50 percent went to the wealthiest 0.1 percent. Because capital gains on assets passed to heirs upon death are not taxed, an asset bought for $250,000 that has appreciated to $10 million when the owner died will not be taxed on the $9.75 million capital gain.


Furthermore, Wyden argues that an unrealized capital gain is not an unused gain: It can be collateral for borrowing that enables the borrower to spend and invest without tapping savings.

Melding his proposal with government’s most popular undertaking, the revenue raised by taxing unrealized capital gains would, Wyden says, be dedicated to Social Security. This is not, however, a momentous idea. Arithmetic says Social Security benefits must be cut about 20 percent when, in 2035 at the latest, the trust fund is projected to be exhausted. Politics guarantees that this cut will not happen: Money infusions will be forthcoming, with or without Wyden’s measure.

Possible problems with Wyden’s proposal include: How do you value transferred assets such as illiquid real estate, businesses and venture capital? Compliance costs might be steep, particularly when the wealthiest Americans’ lawyers and accountants set about gaming the system. (Wyden has done some anti-gaming exercises.) And what Wyden considers a major inequity could be cured simply by ending the exclusion of capital gains taxation at death. Furthermore, many economists across the political spectrum argue that the current treatment of capital gains encourages risk-taking, a.k.a. investment, and economic growth.

Wyden, however, is a true progressive, serenely confident about undertaking major alterations of complex systems. This is today’s context:

During the Trump administration’s first three years, the government’s average annual revenue increase was 2.6 percent (the preceding administration’s: 3.9 percent), spending has increased 5.7 percent per year (preceding administration: 2.6 percent) and the deficit has grown 20.8 percent per year (preceding administration: 9.4 percent average annual decline). In three years, the current administration has added more to the national debt ($2.6 trillion) than the preceding administration did in four years ($2.1 trillion).

The $1.02 trillion federal deficit for calendar 2019 (up 17.1 percent over 2018, which was up 28.2 percent over 2017) occurred with economic growth about as brisk as can be prudently projected (2.3 percent), and at full employment. This is redundant evidence that the nation is more threatened by consensus than by discord, as follows:


America has an aging population and an entitlement system (principally Social Security and Medicare) into which 10,000 baby boomers retire daily. It has a political class ideologically quarrelsome but operationally united by a shared incentive arising from a shared understanding. The class understands there are only two ways to finance government, present taxes and future taxes. The class has a political incentive to enlarge as much as possible the latter’s role in fiscal planning.

America cannot, however, forever fund the government it has chosen to have with the tax code it has, the domestic promises it has made and the defenses it needs. 2019, taxes raised revenue equaling 16.3 percent of gross domestic product, and the government spent a sum equal to 21 percent of GDP. Higher tax rates and/or new taxes (e.g., on carbon) are coming.

The Democratic Party and an American majority believe the wealthy should pay higher taxes. The Republican Party believes . . . well, whatever today’s president says it believes. In its current plasticity, will it stand athwart this majority yelling “stop”? Wyden has a proposal, and patience, and plastic opponents.
 
No because capital gains aren't wages so they shouldn't be taxed as such. Dividends for example aren't a wage, they're paid after a company has already been taxed. Whereas with wages, wages are factored in before a company is taxed, and they reduce the amount a company would owe in taxes, since they're deducted as an expense and lowers the net income of a company. Essentially dividends would be taxed twice.

As for capital gains on investments. Short term capital gains are taxed at the same rate as a person's income, long term capital gains are taxed at a lower wage, but this is because it encourages investment into a company, where there is risk of you not earning your initial investment back as well as a risk of you losing it all together.

Wage earners pay taxes as they earn. Those whose wealth is in the form of capital should pay taxes on it as it appreciates.

This is false, wage earners don't pay taxes as they earn, they pay taxes as they're paid. Two different things, if I work and I get paid a monthly salary on the 1st of every month. I don't pay taxes until the 1st of the month. I'm earning throughout the month, but until I actually receive payment, my earnings aren't taxed. This is the same as it is with capital gains, you dont get taxed on it until you actually cash out and receive your earnings.
 
Your title says capital, your topic is about capital gains...... click bait AF
 
I think the capital should be taken and given to the people
 
I don't think savings account interest should be taxed, at least for the non-rich. Savings accounts are ways for working and middle class people to build wealth without being tied to an illiquid asset. Filing my taxes and entering the interest I made in the last year in my savings account bothers me more than other taxes.
 
Inheritance tax to eliminate the billionair class
 
I don't think savings account interest should be taxed, at least for the non-rich. Savings accounts are ways for working and middle class people to build wealth without being tied to an illiquid asset. Filing my taxes and entering the interest I made in the last year in my savings account bothers me more than other taxes.
You don't "build wealth" with a savings account, they merely protect the wealth you already built from inflation. Unless you get to sums beyond 250k, which means you aren't working class anyway.
 
I don't think savings account interest should be taxed, at least for the non-rich. Savings accounts are ways for working and middle class people to build wealth without being tied to an illiquid asset. Filing my taxes and entering the interest I made in the last year in my savings account bothers me more than other taxes.

Most savings accounts are garbage.
 
Capitol gains and corporate tax should be lower, if anything, and the death tax should be completely repealed

you don't tax societies into prosperity, period

and it basically tells me that almost everyone that is for it, has no retirement plan or savings and thus their opinion is largely irrelevant
 
Capitol gains and corporate tax should be lower, if anything, and the death tax should be completely repealed

you don't tax societies into prosperity, period

Step one should be closing the multitudes of loop holes in the Tax Code that allow companies like Amazon to pay a negligible tax rate...
 
Step one should be closing the multitudes of loop holes in the Tax Code that allow companies like Amazon to pay a negligible tax rate...
Absolutely
which, if we had a lower corporate tax rate, they'd have less of a reason to push for tax loopholes

If it was lowered to say 10 or even 15, but corps HAD to pay the full rate ……..as it is now it's higher but many (if not most of the highest earning orgs) pay little to nothing
 
Capital gains income should be progressively taxed like "regular" income. This would encourage less wealthy people to invest more.
 
Ideologically, I think capital gains should be taxed at a higher rate than personal wages, and certainly at a progressive rate as well. Realistically, I don't know about the distortions that would create, so I have to defer to my tax man, @Gandhi, who previously corrected me about preferring the corporate rate be lowered or held steady simultaneous to an increase to personal income rates.

Capitol gains and corporate tax should be lower, if anything, and the death tax should be completely repealed

you don't tax societies into prosperity, period

and it basically tells me that almost everyone that is for it, has no retirement plan or savings and thus their opinion is largely irrelevant

Glad we got that settled.
 
No because capital gains aren't wages so they shouldn't be taxed as such. Dividends for example aren't a wage, they're paid after a company has already been taxed. Whereas with wages, wages are factored in before a company is taxed, and they reduce the amount a company would owe in taxes, since they're deducted as an expense and lowers the net income of a company. Essentially dividends would be taxed twice.

As for capital gains on investments. Short term capital gains are taxed at the same rate as a person's income, long term capital gains are taxed at a lower wage, but this is because it encourages investment into a company, where there is risk of you not earning your initial investment back as well as a risk of you losing it all together.

This is false, wage earners don't pay taxes as they earn, they pay taxes as they're paid. Two different things, if I work and I get paid a monthly salary on the 1st of every month. I don't pay taxes until the 1st of the month. I'm earning throughout the month, but until I actually receive payment, my earnings aren't taxed. This is the same as it is with capital gains, you dont get taxed on it until you actually cash out and receive your earnings.

This is an argument for capital gains to not be taxed at all, not an argument for it to be taxed less.

And you are completely skirting the real issue: why is one type of income taxed progressively and another isn't? Why the double standard?
 
Passive capital gains should be taxed at higher rates and in a progressive way similar to wages.

The basis adjustment for assets transferred though the estate are total bullshit and should be stopped immediately.

I wouldn’t mind seeing exceptions made for owners who are active in managing their businesses. I’m referring to the folks who put in their life savings, take a huge risk and work 80 hours a week to make it work.
 
Absolutely
which, if we had a lower corporate tax rate, they'd have less of a reason to push for tax loopholes

If it was lowered to say 10 or even 15, but corps HAD to pay the full rate ……..as it is now it's higher but many (if not most of the highest earning orgs) pay little to nothing

Except we now have a lower rate. And they still have their loopholes. They will never give those up willingly.
 
...lolz @ savings accounts

itt: clickbait title that's not about capital, but capital gains taxes.

also itt: people who have no idea what capital gains taxes are/entail, but post nonsense, anyway.

this thread's hilarious. lefties want to punish everyone who isn't dependent upon the govt by taking more from them, while rewarding leeches for leeching.

it makes no sense. lefty logic incentivizes being lazy and mooching.
 
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Passive capital gains should be taxed at higher rates and in a progressive way similar to wages.

so people should be taxed on their wages, taxed on their investments from their wages (we are here now)... and taxed even more on said investments from wages?

"progressive" - punish those who invest their wages instead of blowing it?

Capital gains income should be progressively taxed like "regular" income. This would encourage less wealthy people to invest more.

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This is an argument for capital gains to not be taxed at all, not an argument for it to be taxed less.

And you are completely skirting the real issue: why is one type of income taxed progressively and another isn't? Why the double standard?
There wasn't an option for no taxation on them at all unfortunately. I believe dividends shouldn't be taxed at all, it's money that has already been taxed. Capital gains should be taxed as it's an appreciation on an investment, but the amount should be lower than typical wages as it encourages investment and investment is a driver of the overall financial economy.

Capital gains are taxed progressively. You may not think the progression is high enough but it does change based on income.
 
Capitol gains and corporate tax should be lower, if anything, and the death tax should be completely repealed

you don't tax societies into prosperity, period

and it basically tells me that almost everyone that is for it, has no retirement plan or savings and thus their opinion is largely irrelevant


You don’t make enough money a death tax would even effect you.
 
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