The definitive "how to finish a heel hook" thread

[N1njaTurtle]

There's dozens of different heelhooks. My favorite one is compressing the guy's heel when he has a delariva on you. They don't expect it and it's really funny to see the panic tap.

Joking how?

His premise for finish is that of an outside toe hold, performed badly at that (think of trying to unscrew a nut from a bolt using a really short spanner, vs a long one).

A heel hook is not finished by rotation of the tibia/fibia in the knee joint.

NOT finished like that.

This is BAD TECHNIQUE.

I can't figure out if the guy actually believes that's the right way to teach it, or if he's being a douche and perpetuating bad finishing technique; some BJJ dorks are deviant like that.

You sound like some tapout UFC guy who has only rolled out of bed into a pile of soda cans.

Maybe you should go to Australia to teach Lachlan Giles how to heelhook, you delusional know-nothing wanker.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

WTF?



"It works like a side knee bar...."

The videos are from like three years apart, entirely possibly his opinion changed in the course of learning to smash world class heavyweights with the move.

 

[DeepFry]

The videos are from like three years apart, entirely possibly his opinion changed in the course of learning to smash world class heavyweights with the move.

You're right actually - the one where he's advocating twisting to finish = old.

Well, proves my point.

Historically precise finishing mechanics are poorly understood.

 

[DeepFry]

There's dozens of different heelhooks. My favorite one is compressing the guy's heel when he has a delariva on you. They don't expect it and it's really funny to see the panic tap.





You sound like some tapout UFC guy who has only rolled out of bed into a pile of soda cans.

Maybe you should go to Australia to teach Lachlan Giles how to heelhook, you delusional know-nothing wanker.

Snake Pit - love that channel.

Just FYI that timestamped sub is an outside toehold, not a heel hook in its correct definition.

Just to the dudes saying I don't trane teh UFC brah and I've never rolled, I've been training a loooonngggg time, BUT, I have my own system, what I personally contend is a far more efficient means to learn, perform, understand and teach.

So a lot of the popular group think BS, I wipe my ass with that drivel, and I have no qualms about pointing out flaws even if it's with competitors whose balls most other dudes (and gals) would lick if given the opportunity.

Also the entire historical idea of "hespect" with teh "martial arts bruh" - I wipe my ass with that too, and I thumb my nose at any uppity motherfuckers who think they're entitled to it based on talent or achievement, when they have a fuckface personality and continue to cop a shit attitude.

 

[Da Speeit]

Snake Pit - love that channel.

Just FYI that timestamped sub is an outside toehold, not a heel hook in its correct definition.

Just to the dudes saying I don't trane teh UFC brah and I've never rolled, I've been training a loooonngggg time, BUT, I have my own system, what I personally contend is a far more efficient means to learn, perform, understand and teach.

So a lot of the popular group think BS, I wipe my ass with that drivel, and I have no qualms about pointing out flaws even if it's with competitors whose balls most other dudes (and gals) would lick if given the opportunity.

Also the entire historical idea of "hespect" with teh "martial arts bruh" - I wipe my ass with that shit too, and I thumb my nose at any uppity motherfuckers who think they're entitled to it based on talent or achievement, when they have a fuckface personality and continue to cop a shit attitude.

 

[randomg1t]

this thread started off nicely and then the dude decides to criticise lachlan fucking giles, of all people.

 

[Peteyandjia]

this thread started off nicely and then the dude decides to criticise lachlan fucking giles, of all people.

Seriously though, think about it, he does have a point... who exactly does this Lachlan Giles guy think he is, anyway?

That sorry excuse for what HE refers to as a ‘heel hook’ might fly, repeatedly, on the very highest stage of competition in nogi grappling in the world; even against top-level competitors, way above his weight class...

... but it does NOT pass muster here, under the intense scrutiny of a random online forum account.

Here, deep within the furthest bowels of the interwebz.

Here... Where it counts.

Get your shit together, Lach.

 

[randomg1t]

Seriously though, think about it, he does have a point... who exactly does this Lachlan Giles guy think he is, anyway?

That sorry excuse for what HE refers to as a ‘heel hook’ might fly, repeatedly, on the very highest stage of competition in nogi grappling in the world; even against top-level competitors, way above his weight class...

... but it does NOT pass muster here, under the intense scrutiny of a random online forum account.

Here, deep within the furthest bowels of the interwebz.

Here... Where it counts.

Get your shit together, Lach.

i've actually seen world class competitors do a shit job explaining a technique, or just brushing something off as ineffective. i remember seeing roger gracie demonstrate a pass in which he completely dismissed the lasso guard his partner held throughout the pass. maybe roger doesn't get swept from the lasso, but we regular mortals sure as fuck do. so as far as i'm concerned, being world class doesn't elevate you above criticism at all.

but mocking lachlan giles' leglock technique and knowledge about how the knee and ankle joints are built? the guy who's heelhooking world class competitors and holds a phd in physiotherapy? that's like saying roger can't do a proper cross choke from the mount. it's pathetically asinine.

 

[RemyR]

There's dozens of different heelhooks. My favorite one is compressing the guy's heel when he has a delariva on you. They don't expect it and it's really funny to see the panic tap.




.

I just can’t see that working too well without shoes

 

[DeepFry]

this thread started off nicely and then the dude decides to criticise lachlan fucking giles, of all people.

The criticism was valid.

He later revised his heel instruction protocol.

i.e. I was correct.

 

[JagRoss]

There are multiple ways to break someone from an inside heel hook.
The 2nd vid you posted of the side bridge into the knee - that's more from his outside sankaku or 80/20 position.
If you don't have that position you can still finish the heelhook through rotation.

In fact if you watch Ryan Hall in the UFC he quite often finishes it the way Lachlan shows in the first video.

 

[DeepFry]

There are multiple ways to break someone from an inside heel hook.
The 2nd vid you posted of the side bridge into the knee - that's more from his outside sankaku or 80/20 position.
If you don't have that position you can still finish the heelhook through rotation.

In fact if you watch Ryan Hall in the UFC he quite often finishes it the way Lachlan shows in the first video.

More of this crap.

It's not finished through rotation.

It's NEVER finished through rotation;

However to setup the knee position for the hip in extension, rotation CAN be used.

But only to setup up for the finish, which is hip in extension.

 

[RemyR]

I mean looking at it he’s got a point. You gonna tell Ryan Hall he’s wrong too?

You’re just getting ridiculous at this point. You’re taking one concept and running with it as gospel like you did with your wrestling thread. There is in fact more than one way to finish a heel hook in the same fashion there’s several ways to finish an arm bar.



at about 5 mins in Danaher makes it pretty clear he’s looking for a rotational twist finish. Or are you going to say that he and all his students don’t know heel hooks as well?

I guess Danaher, Lachlan, and Ryan Hall all should be taking leg lock lessons from this Deepfry guy.

 

[cheachea]

There is in fact more than one way to finish a heel hook in the same fashion there’s several ways to finish an arm bar.

I wish that there was an Instructional that explained this exhaustively in detail and showed all the different variations, mechanics and positions.

 

[rmongler]

From 1lx there are basically two main postures for attacking the legs; either turned inside, with the outside leg woven in deep for a reap; or turned outside, with the outside leg posted on the hip.

In either way, a submission here requires the leg be bent and twisted first, or else you get no joy.

 

[cheachea]

From 1lx there are basically two main postures for attacking the legs; either turned inside, with the outside leg woven in deep for a reap; or turned outside, with the outside leg posted on the hip.

In either way, a submission here requires the leg be bent and twisted first, or else you get no joy.

Thanks for this video.

 

[DeepFry]

I mean looking at it he’s got a point. You gonna tell Ryan Hall he’s wrong too?

You’re just getting ridiculous at this point. You’re taking one concept and running with it as gospel like you did with your wrestling thread. There is in fact more than one way to finish a heel hook in the same fashion there’s several ways to finish an arm bar.



at about 5 mins in Danaher makes it pretty clear he’s looking for a rotational twist finish. Or are you going to say that he and all his students don’t know heel hooks as well?

I guess Danaher, Lachlan, and Ryan Hall all should be taking leg lock lessons from this Deepfry guy.

What Danaher does there is outline vertical rotation, "heel towards my head, toes toward the buttocks".

What happens with this application is automatic hip in extension with lateral bending (crunching in).

It illustrates my entire point.

As simple as the tibia/fibia/knee-capsule anatomy is, the mechanics of the heel hook just isn't understood and taught well.

By that I mean, the fundamental governing principle of the sub.

i.e. dudes do something, think it's twisting, Whatever TF, teach it likes it's twisting, think it is twisting, but in actually fact the serendipitous hip in extension they don't even realize they're doing is what finishes the sub (often poorly, i.e. Ian Entwistle)

 

[DeepFry]

 

[RemyR]

 

[cheachea]

It's amazing to me that Heel Hooks came from Catch but in the modern age it's kind of challenging to find details and techniques from the Catch perspective about Heel Hooks.

I've seen some videos showing the Outside Heel Hook Mechanics for Catch, but I would like to learn specific details for the Inside, Back Side etc.

I mean It's like free money for the guys who make Catch Wrestling Instructionals if they released it on bjjfanatics or even on their own sites.

I've found a few here and there, but I wish that we could get a Definitive Catch Wrestling Instructional that is only about Heel Hooks and The Breaking Mechanics :