The Rumble in the Jungle is...

[Goober stoober]

The greatest fight of all time.

Ok, to be fair, I have not watched every fight ever recorded but I am not sure there would be one to that beats the Rumble in the Jungle when it comes pre fight excitement, location, era, fighters involved, storylines behind the fight and of course the actual fight itself.

I still can't get over the fact that there was a large contingent of people that believed Foreman would actually kill Ali in the ring. Ali, being a shell of his former self was up against the baddest man on the planet in Foreman but Ali had a plan.

The rope-a-dope. Seems simple enough but it wasn't how people tried to fight Foreman. Sitting on the ropes versus a guy like that would surely mean the demise of the average boxer. He was too big and strong and he had murderous intent with every blow he threw. But somehow, Ali's plan works and tires out ol Georgie boy just enough to spring into his own attack and finish the scariest man in Africa.

I think this fight had it all, like it's some biblical bedtime story you tell your kids. I know some might argue the War is the best fight of all time and in terms of action, it's hard to disagree. But the Rumble had so much more cultural significance and possibly the last great performance from the Greatest of all time.

 

[Smashus Clay]

I'll agree with you, but I'm certainly biased lol.

Seeing how popular Ali was in Zaire is amazing - how the people would run with him doing his roadwork, the "Ali boma ye" chants, it's crazy to think of somebody being that popular world wide now even though we're so much more connected. I guess maybe Messi or Ronaldo would be the closest comparison now a days. Maybe it's simply because I'm older or maybe media saturation but they seem so much lesser socially, much more stale.

 

[Yehudim]

I always thought the actual fight itself was quite boring, Foreman gassed and wasn’t doing much of anything in those final rounds.

But I understand how build up can lead to excitement that will eventually be lost to later generations. Many people still consider Fedor v Cro Cop to be a great fight when it was pretty average.

It is quite similar to Rumble in the Jungle in that way.

 

[mozfonky]

I swear, Ali's 60's performances, particularly the first Liston fight, made watching 70's Ali frustrating. Seeing someone that good and that focused against a guy no one thought he could beat, spoiled me for the later Ali. Ali was still successful in the 70's of course and Foreman may have been his most glorious night and may have been just what Michael Katz called it, "the greatest comeback in boxing history" but I'll be damned if it was like watching Ali in the 60's when he had his legs, his discipline and drive and could fight for a solid 15 rounds on his toes. But, as for his intangibles and his ring generalship, that fight was exhibit a for the case of Ali being the smartest man in boxing history. He planned to move but tried in the first round and realized that two things would make that impossible, one was that George cut off the ring very easily and better than anyone ever did against him and the flooring was spongy and soft which would drain his legs even faster. So, knowing he could take a punch, knowing he had the balls, he fought off the ropes against perhaps the greatest puncher the division has ever seen and certainly the most spectacular, and also a guy who beat Ali's two nemesis' with ease. It was a great fight and Ali did a helluva lot more than just lay on the ropes, he was ahead on the cards and was whipping George's ass most of the way. But.., It just wasn't vintage Ali, that dreamlike figure that floated across the screen like a giant nureyev in those hazed, mythical black and white films from the 60's. How would that ali have done with George, or Joe or Ken?

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

To be honest as a great of a fight it was I think people have a revisionist idea of it. People kind of paint images they have seen from his other fights into that fight in their minds.

What I mean is people think dodged a lot more then he actually did. When you watch that fight from start to finish you really see how much of a beating he took, from a big puncher at that. It payed off, granted but still it’s not like all those blows were slipped or blocked. Some resilience Ali had that’s for sure

 

[boxingskills]

I don't think it's the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.

Holyfield vs Bowe 1 was better.

It also wasn't Ali's or Foreman's best fight. Ali's 3rd fight with Frazier was better and Foreman's fight with Lyle was an exciting slugfest.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Sure I would maybe agree just based on the story of it all.

I will say this for Ali. I think that win made him the 2nd greatest fighter of all time. Only Robinson had a better resume after that one

 

[Syd1975]

Definitely not the best fight, but was delighted at the outcome. Though if I were to time travel back in history and (not know the result in advance), I'd imagine it'd be a heart stopper.

The documentary on the build up to the fight was quite good.

 

[burningspear]

I'll agree with you, but I'm certainly biased lol.

Seeing how popular Ali was in Zaire is amazing - how the people would run with him doing his roadwork, the "Ali boma ye" chants, it's crazy to think of somebody being that popular world wide now even though we're so much more connected. I guess maybe Messi or Ronaldo would be the closest comparison now a days. Maybe it's simply because I'm older or maybe media saturation but they seem so much lesser socially, much more stale.

I know King was a cunt but he made things happen. The doc is amazing, so much more than a big fight.

 

[Smashus Clay]

I know King was a cunt but he made things happen. The doc is amazing, so much more than a big fight.

Is. Is a cunt lol. He's done some truly disgusting things to fighters and I dont understand how he's got a stable of guys still, today. We all hate Uncle Bob, or Al Haymon at times but they're saints comparatively.

 

[djacobox372]

Ali Frazier 1 was the best HW fight of all time... competitive as hell, with the most build up.

 

[Hagler]

People tend to forget that Ali was ahead on all 3 cards when the KO happened. He took some damage but he inflicted even more.

Hard to pick a greatest HW fight ever, really. All the great fights are a blend of historical significance and boxing prowess. I wouldn’t say anyone picking Foreman-Ali is wrong. I just put Ali-Foreman 1 and 3 above. Maybe Bowe-Holyfield 1 and Johnson-Jeffries too.

 

[danny23]

It was quite an iconic bout and maybe not the best fight but it defined the sport and further cemented Ali’s legend.
Ali was the underdog coming in, out of his prime and against a game Foreman, and remarkably overcame after taking battering a from Foreman.

Here’s a great tribute song to that fight

 

[defjaam]

I swear, Ali's 60's performances, particularly the first Liston fight, made watching 70's Ali frustrating. Seeing someone that good and that focused against a guy no one thought he could beat, spoiled me for the later Ali. Ali was still successful in the 70's of course and Foreman may have been his most glorious night and may have been just what Michael Katz called it, "the greatest comeback in boxing history" but I'll be damned if it was like watching Ali in the 60's when he had his legs, his discipline and drive and could fight for a solid 15 rounds on his toes. But, as for his intangibles and his ring generalship, that fight was exhibit a for the case of Ali being the smartest man in boxing history. He planned to move but tried in the first round and realized that two things would make that impossible, one was that George cut off the ring very easily and better than anyone ever did against him and the flooring was spongy and soft which would drain his legs even faster. So, knowing he could take a punch, knowing he had the balls, he fought off the ropes against perhaps the greatest puncher the division has ever seen and certainly the most spectacular, and also a guy who beat Ali's two nemesis' with ease. It was a great fight and Ali did a helluva lot more than just lay on the ropes, he was ahead on the cards and was whipping George's ass most of the way. But.., It just wasn't vintage Ali, that dreamlike figure that floated across the screen like a giant nureyev in those hazed, mythical black and white films from the 60's. How would that ali have done with George, or Joe or Ken?

I don't think that even 60s Ali could handle Foreman the same way he did Liston and Cleveland Williams.

I recently looked at some of Ali's fights in the 2nd half of the 70s - when he had slipped even more compared to 1974... And the fight with Jimmy Young is just one the most absurd HW championship fights in history... Ali keeps clowning Young in order to pretend he's having everything under control, and to cover up that he doesn't have the physical means anymore to fight... Did the same vs. Shavers.
But he also did it in 1966 vs. Chuvalo already. I can't think of a rational explanation why he'd let Chuvalo punch his ribs.

So Ali, despite his greatness, was always a weird fighter and by many people a misunderstood fighter. Never learned proper defense.

 

[GeneTunney7]

I don't think it's the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.

Holyfield vs Bowe 1 was better.

It also wasn't Ali's or Foreman's best fight. Ali's 3rd fight with Frazier was better and Foreman's fight with Lyle was an exciting slugfest.

100%. If it was just a regular heavyweight with no titles on the line with two no name guys, it would probably not even be ranked in the top 100. Owing to the cultural importance of Ali and the hype behind Big George, it turned it into something different. It's kind of like how Conor Nate II was voted the Fight Of the Year - sure, it was a good fight, but it got an extra boost owing to it's significance.

 

[mozfonky]

Ali Frazier 1 was the best HW fight of all time... competitive as hell, with the most build up.

ya, that was a magical fight, and people wonder why I'm not impressed with these guys today. fights like that....

 

[mozfonky]

I don't think that even 60s Ali could handle Foreman the same way he did Liston and Cleveland Williams.

I recently looked at some of Ali's fights in the 2nd half of the 70s - when he had slipped even more compared to 1974... And the fight with Jimmy Young is just one the most absurd HW championship fights in history... Ali keeps clowning Young in order to pretend he's having everything under control, and to cover up that he doesn't have the physical means anymore to fight... Did the same vs. Shavers.
But he also did it in 1966 vs. Chuvalo already. I can't think of a rational explanation why he'd let Chuvalo punch his ribs.

So Ali, despite his greatness, was always a weird fighter and by many people a misunderstood fighter. Never learned proper defense.

well, two things were improved in his later years, he was physically stronger and he was more confident because he was more experienced. Yet and still, Eddie Futch said that his first look of Ali showed him a couple special things, he was sparring guys that could hurt you and Ali was there with his hands down, and he could take a great shot. so, even early, Ali had tons of heart, those types of stories go back to his earliest years as a fighter.

However, if George really was that effective at cutting off the ring, unlike sonny, then Clay would have had to brawl at some point, maybe not alot but some. it would be a different fight but Ali was much better conditioned as a young fighter and he had a lot of moves that he seemed to forget as he got older. Night and day in many ways.

 

[Goober stoober]

I really don't think people give enough credit to the incredible build up this fight had compared to other ones that were mentioned.

I would agree that in terms of action, it wasn't the most exciting fight ever but something like Cooper vs Holyfield doesn't have any cultural or historical significance.

But you honestly could not have scripted the finish any better. Ali is getting battered the entire fight, he does not look good at all but yet he's taunting Foreman the entire time. Foreman at this moment was literally at the peak of his powers, a real killer who was a street fighting legend, a guy who demolished the guys Ali had trouble with. This was supposed to be a walk in the park for George and it was kind of going the way it was supposed to.

Even knowing how it plays out before I watched it doesn't rob me of the drama and intrigue that surrounded that night just like other classic fights that have happened before and since. I'm not sure how long it'll be until we see something that matches the magnitude of the event.

 

[JayE]

People tend to forget that Ali was ahead on all 3 cards when the KO happened. He took some damage but he inflicted even more.

Hard to pick a greatest HW fight ever, really. All the great fights are a blend of historical significance and boxing prowess. I wouldn’t say anyone picking Foreman-Ali is wrong. I just put Ali-Foreman 1 and 3 above. Maybe Bowe-Holyfield 1 and Johnson-Jeffries too.

Norton/Holmes is always high on my list.

 

[JayE]

well, two things were improved in his later years, he was physically stronger and he was more confident because he was more experienced. Yet and still, Eddie Futch said that his first look of Ali showed him a couple special things, he was sparring guys that could hurt you and Ali was there with his hands down, and he could take a great shot. so, even early, Ali had tons of heart, those types of stories go back to his earliest years as a fighter.

However, if George really was that effective at cutting off the ring, unlike sonny, then Clay would have had to brawl at some point, maybe not alot but some. it would be a different fight but Ali was much better conditioned as a young fighter and he had a lot of moves that he seemed to forget as he got older. Night and day in many ways.

It is a good point that Foreman was extremely good at cutting the ring and I think he'd have success doing so even against the younger Ali, but even a younger Ali was capable and willing to take a beating, and I think the stamina required out of young Foreman to fight a high pressure fight against Ali over 15 would have always been an issue.