The Yama Tsuki/Mountain Punch

YamaTsukiBoy

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First thread on Sherdog, figured I might as well make it on a technique that I use as part of my handle.

Said technique below:

yama-zuki.jpg


So what are your opinions on this technique? Is this another case of Mcdojo folly? Or is there merit in striking with both hands in different places? As far as I can tell, both punches won't land very hard and since you commit both hands, you can't follow up with anything afterwards.

That all being said, it can look pretty dope...

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I'm pretty sure Muay Boran has a double punch, but its like a double uppercut hehe. doesnt look effective at all but ive personally never tried it

"Monkry King presents rings", some schools do it as a jumping knee these days but the older version is a jump-in double upper cut. It can be done straight down the pipe or with a slip to the outside. Works surprising well as both fists hit the chin.
 
"Monkry King presents rings", some schools do it as a jumping knee these days but the older version is a jump-in double upper cut. It can be done straight down the pipe or with a slip to the outside. Works surprising well as both fists hit the chin.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the double uppercut lack the ability to generate power as well?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the double uppercut lack the ability to generate power as well?

You're jumping into it, from what I understand, so the power comes entirely from the explosiveness of your jump and your body weight.
 
Emmanuel Augustus did this in Boxing. Got warned, but it was funny.
 
You're jumping into it, from what I understand, so the power comes entirely from the explosiveness of your jump and your body weight.

More or less, it relies almost entirely on leg and waist power. the other caveat to it power wise is you have to completely commit to the attack. This makes it a bit all or nothing.
 
And? All techniques have counters to beat them. Even jabbing, the 'safest' punch is susceptible to something like a cross counter.
It seems to me that the obvious counter to that weak technique is a left hook. I think if you leaned in at me like that with your head stuck out like that while trying a weak two fisted over-under punch, I would not be threatened by either one, and I'm thinking about taking your head off with a left hook. Granted, any weird technique can get through at any time in a real fight, but that shit is just begging to be corrected with a left hook.
 
Emmanuel Augustus did this in Boxing. Got warned, but it was funny.

Hah yes, referring to this punch?

augustus%20double%20punch.gif


Not a yama tsuki per say, but still worth mentioning Manny Pacquiao's double punch. :icon_lol:

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It seems to me that the obvious counter to that weak technique is a left hook. I think if you leaned in at me like that with your head stuck out like that while trying a weak two fisted over-under punch, I would not be threatened by either one, and I'm thinking about taking your head off with a left hook. Granted, any weird technique can get through at any time in a real fight, but that shit is just begging to be corrected with a left hook.

Fair enough. I'd imagine a left switch kick would be good counter too if your good with it. Then again, who's really training to counter something like this?
 
Fair enough. I'd imagine a left switch kick would be good counter too if your good with it. Then again, who's really training to counter something like this?
I hear ya, but those guys were spent. I don't think you would see that technique used on a fresh fighter unless he's completely outclassed from the getgo.
 
What is the actual application of the technique? Is it a counter or purely an offensive technique?

Reminds me of the Mongolian Chop, in that it's a technique that I can not conclude any use for upon first glance (Seeing Saku use it), but at the same time is intriguing in a mcdojo-ish kind of way.
 
What is the actual application of the technique? Is it a counter or purely an offensive technique?

Reminds me of the Mongolian Chop, in that it's a technique that I can not conclude any use for upon first glance (Seeing Saku use it), but at the same time is intriguing in a mcdojo-ish kind of way.

As far as the senseis I've had said, its just attacking from multiple angles. The karate guys here like shinkyoku could probably elabourate.
 








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As you can see it has multiple applications. In the Tkd i learned i was taught it as firemans carry throw
 
What is the actual application of the technique? Is it a counter or purely an offensive technique?

Reminds me of the Mongolian Chop, in that it's a technique that I can not conclude any use for upon first glance (Seeing Saku use it), but at the same time is intriguing in a mcdojo-ish kind of way.

- It's a hight-block with a counter punch to the body.

Emmanuel Augustus did this in Boxing. Got warned, but it was funny.

- Spider-man used similar technique to beat the Chameleon in the old animated series.
 
One bunkai Ive heard for yama-tsuki is that the punches are grabs (one to the hair, and one to the clothing), and the real technique is a headbutt to the front of the face, once the two hands has a good hold and are pulled back.
 
Looking at this thread it's the perfect example how legit techniques from TMAs that had a purpose got mutilated and turned into McDojo shit to the point where even it's original purpose was forgotten
 
- It's a hight-block with a counter punch to the body.

One bunkai Ive heard for yama-tsuki is that the punches are grabs (one to the hair, and one to the clothing), and the real technique is a headbutt to the front of the face, once the two hands has a good hold and are pulled back.

Ah, that actually makes complete sense now.
 
One bunkai Ive heard for yama-tsuki is that the punches are grabs (one to the hair, and one to the clothing), and the real technique is a headbutt to the front of the face, once the two hands has a good hold and are pulled back.

Thats sounds like an awesome technique.
 








tumblr_ng5iofLSd71twv7b1o1_500.jpg


box-2block+&+body+punch.jpg


box-3head+gurad+&+counter.jpg


As you can see it has multiple applications. In the Tkd i learned i was taught it as firemans carry throw



Great stuff, going to try this stuff out when I get the chance. Guess I should have looked up the bunkai of it before making such a thread.
 
I'm pretty sure Muay Boran has a double punch, but its like a double uppercut hehe. doesnt look effective at all but ive personally never tried it
 
I dont believe in its creation it was ever intended as a double punch. its simply not a mechanically sound attack to preform given it doesnt allow you to issue much power.

I also see it as this. Mind my crude cartoon drawings

u%20punch_zpsc0rxqwmk.png


. In the first drawing you and your opponent are in a typical standing wrestling position grappling at each others lapels.


. in the second drawing the opponent either attempt to grab over your arm or punch over your arm that is grabbing up high on his lapel. You jam up this arm by simply raising your elbow up

. In the third pic a short upper cut is delivered to the body immediately after jamming up your opponents attempt to attack over your arm. Thus completely the c or u pattern of the attack
 
LEGS has posted some excellent examples of yama-tsuki applications, and LeonardoBJJ's suggestion of a high block and body punch is also good. Something to keep in mind is that "tsuki" doesn't mean "punch," it means "thrust." All that means is that you are forcefully extending your arms--what you do with that motion is up to you. Also, people tend to think that "double" motions in kata must always be done simultaneously, but their timing can actually be staggered. With those things in mind, it's much easier to look beyond the simple "double punch to the face and body" idea for yama-tsuki.

While I am open to a variety of applications, my preference for yama-tsuki is to use it to cut the lines of my opponent's attack while countering--preferably while also jamming any following attacks from them. By that, I mean that one of the arms is going to cut into the path of my opponent's punch, effectively blocking it, while maintaining the option to strike. Here is a traditional karate example of this:

TightFirstGodwit.gif


Now, right off the bat, I can tell you that I don't like the way this is presented, but that isn't really important. What is important is the concept being shown. You can see that, against the first punch, the demonstrator drops his left arm over the top of a low punch in such a way that it deflects it, while still allowing him to strike with it. Against the second punch, his right arm lifts and twists so that it pushes the attack out of the way, while leaving his hand in a position to strike the face. Now, you most likely will never do both of these things, because people don't generally throw two punches like that, but again, the concept is what I'm looking at here.

Motobu-Choki-Kumite-23-and-24-Okinawa-Kenpo-Karate-Jutsu-Kumite-Hen.jpg


For a more practical look at the karate method, we can consider this example from Motobu Choki's book, Okinawa Kenpo Karate-Jutsu: Kumite-Hen. Motobu Choki was known for routinely getting into fights in rough areas of town to test his karate, generally had a reputation for practical karate and cross-training, and even took up a challenge match against a Western boxer, winning by knockout. In other words; the man knew how to fight. In the example, above, he shows how you can throw a punch on the inside of your opponent's punch so that it deflects it, while allowing you to strike at their face. He then follows up by throwing a knee to the body, and you'll see that he has control of both arms when he does it--we'll get to that in a bit.

Dempsey-Glance-off.jpg


In case you think this is just a karate idea, here is the very same concept illustrated by Jack Dempsey in his book, Championship Fighting, as well as in his fight against Jess Willard. He calls the technique on the left a "glance-off," and the one on the right a "right corkscrew," but they are both really using the same concept--you throw a strike in such a way that it acts as both a deflection and a punch.

Now, to make this a yama-tsuki, simply use your non-striking hand to check your opponent's free arm. In Motobu's demonstration, he is keeping his right hand in its guard position (the old-school karate "guard" posture was essentially the same as Western bareknuckle boxers') while throwing his line-cutting strike. In Dempsey's examples, he simply keeps his non-striking arm out of the way. If they used their free hand to reach out and check their opponent's other arm, they would end up in the same posture as yama-tsuki. It also leaves you in an excellent position to tie up the opponent's arms and throw knees, as Motobu shows, or simply tie them up, because you are already in contact with both of their arms.
 
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