Those who don't have lebron 2nd all time behind MJ. Why?

[Vogg]

What does that matter? 8 straight Finals (10 total). 4 rings out of it. Impressive without question but making it to the Finals isn't the goal, winning it is. If you're going to talk Finals, talk wins. Otherwise, stick to the other stats.

My point about not dominating one's era is applicable here. Steph has been to 6 Finals (5 straight). He's won 4. 6 Finals in 8 years is nothing to sneeze at. It's not 10 appearances but it's not so far off that they're in different categories of greatness. And they both got 4 rings out of their appearances in the same generation of talent. I think Bron is the better player but he's not dominating his generation as clearly as it looked in the early part of his career.

Just to put it into context. Magic and Larry Bird were the same generation of talent. Magic got 5 rings and Larry got 3. Magic went 9 times. Larry went 5. With those numbers, Magic was more successful in the Finals than Lebron, despite going about the same number of times. And 5 > 3 tells us that Magic outperformed his generational rival. And both of them outperformed Isiah Thomas who only had 3 appearances and 2 rings. Steph with 6 appearances and 4 rings and Lebron with 10 appearances but 4 rings are both within that group.

Zzzzz

LeBron has been the best player in the nba in two vastly different eras. He’s dominated everywhere he went and is the best player the game has ever seen.

until this last year LeBron has been considered the best player in the nba since 2005. Any other discussion has been a joke at best. The one guy who could have had an argument was needed for the Warriors to beat the Cavs.

 

[panamaican]

Zzzzz

LeBron has been the best player in the nba in two vastly different eras. He’s dominated everywhere he went and is the best player the game has ever seen.

until this last year LeBron has been considered the best player in the nba since 2005. Any other discussion has been a joke at best. The one guy who could have had an argument was needed for the Warriors to beat the Cavs.

That's a great piece of fan fiction. I like how the chapter on Kobe isn't in your book, the guy who dropped 81 in 2006 and was winning championships in 2009 and 2010. And you're missing the chapter abuot who Lebron lost to Curry before KD in 2015. There's only like a 5 year window where LBJ's position as greatest player in the league was without debate.

But that's besides the point. No one said he's not a great player or even a top 10, top 5 player. He's just not the most important player of his era. Right now, he shares that with Steph. And I am reconsidering if he's 2nd all time when I look at the history and realize that the era of unquestionable dominance was shorter than I'd initially thought.

 

[Vogg]

That's a great piece of fan fiction. I like how the chapter on Kobe isn't in your book, the guy who dropped 81 in 2006 and was winning championships in 2009 and 2010. And you're missing the chapter abuot who Lebron lost to Curry before KD in 2015. There's only like a 5 year window where LBJ's position as greatest player in the league was without debate.

But that's besides the point. No one said he's not a great player or even a top 10, top 5 player. He's just not the most important player of his era. Right now, he shares that with Steph. And I am reconsidering if he's 2nd all time when I look at the history and realize that the era of unquestionable dominance was shorter than I'd initially thought.

Kobe wasn’t better than Lebron you mark

LeBron was playing with drew Gooden.

lmao @ lebron losing to curry

delly was the 2nd best player on the cavs in that finals, just stop with the bullshit

 

[jeskola]

LeBron is the second goat. Only behind his airness. Who doesn't have him there and what are the reasons why? I wanna hear

Kobe

 

[BIKES!]

The list is way too long on why Le-bitch isn’t top 5.

1. Historic Flop artist
2. Stacked his teams
3. Fired his coaches
4. The Heat PR stunt
5. Cry baby
6. Last two seasons was a quitter
7. 4 rings
8. When he won with the Cavs the east was so bad they only had one real competition. Similar with the Heat
9. He’s a big pile of shit that couldn’t win in the Olympics twice until Kobe entered the chat
10. Not even worthy of carrying Kobe, Russel, Kareem or Magic’s jock strap

 

[panamaican]

Kobe wasn’t better than Lebron you mark

LeBron was playing with drew Gooden.

lmao @ lebron losing to curry

delly was the 2nd best player on the cavs in that finals, just stop with the bullshit

It's a dumb argument to pretend that Lebron was better than Kobe based on who they were playing with, instead of how they actually played. Kobe was the best player in the league in the mid-2000s.

And if you think Delly was the 2nd best player on those Cavs teams then that helps me understand why your basketball opinions are such trash. Straight garbage.

 

[Vogg]

It's a dumb argument to pretend that Lebron was better than Kobe based on who they were playing with, instead of how they actually played. Kobe was the best player in the league in the mid-2000s.

And if you think Delly was the 2nd best player on those Cavs teams then that helps me understand why your basketball opinions are such trash. Straight garbage.

Kobe was a better shooter, that’s it.

If you think he wasn’t (delly) then you’re ignorant to the fact everyone else was injured.

 

[BIKES!]

Kobe was a better shooter, that’s it.

If you think he wasn’t (delly) then you’re ignorant to the fact everyone else was injured.

Lol. And better defense on the ball and everywhere. 9 vs 5 All defensive teams

Lebron couldn’t even carry a better USA team
In the Olympics and failed twice. Arguably the worst leader of any of the top 20 players of all time. Kobe showed up and Murica reigned supreme


https://www.landofbasketball.com/awards/all_defensive_teams_player_1st.htm

 

[Vogg]

Lol. And better defense on the ball and everywhere. 9 vs 5 All defensive teams

Lebron couldn’t even carry a better USA team
In the Olympics and failed twice. Arguably the worst leader of any of the top 20 players of all time. Kobe showed up and Murica reigned supreme


https://www.landofbasketball.com/awards/all_defensive_teams_player_1st.htm

Nope

LeBron has had to defend the best players 1-5, Kobe never had to. Shut the hell up. You casual nerds come into my kingdom and act like you know shit about fuck. Just stop.

 

[BIKES!]

Nope

LeBron has had to defend the best players 1-5, Kobe never had to. Shut the hell up. You casual nerds come into my kingdom and act like you know shit about fuck. Just stop.

Haha you casual little kiddo. When your balls drop we can revisit

 

[Domitian]

I used to have LBJ 2nd but I've been rethinking it. The problem is that Steph Curry has as many rings in the same era. He and LBJ each won a ring facing the other guy's team, excluding the KD years. Steph will have more impact on the NBA than Bron in the long run. And Steph is the best ever at a specific part of the game, while Lebron isn't.

I don't see LBJ as dominating his era as cleanly as I used to. And if he and Steph are splitting the era then he can't be 2nd OAT. 2nd has to go to someone who clearly dominated their era.

Lebron has made the Finals 10 different times in his career and has 4 MVP's. He has won a championship for 3 different teams. He has been All NBA team 18 times. He has over 37,000 points and can very well pass KAJ for the all time scoring leader spot within the next year or two. I think Lebron clearly has dominated in his era. He took the Cavs to the finals with Zydrunas Ilgauskas as the 2nd best player on the team. With those Cavs it was like playing with a handicap against him.

Another thing for Lebron is he has versatility. He can play all 5 positions. Maybe not the best but he's not limited in that area like some of his peers in the goat conversations.

 

[panamaican]

Lebron has made the Finals 8 different times in his career and has 4 MVP's. He has won a championship for 3 different teams. He has been All NBA team 18 times. He has over 37,000 points and can very well pass KAJ for the all time scoring leader spot within the next year or two. I think Lebron clearly has dominated in his era. He took the Cavs to the finals with Zydrunas Ilgauskas as the 2nd best player on the team. With those Cavs it was like playing with a handicap against him.

No one said he's not a great player. He's actually been to 10 Finals, not 8. But in his era, Steph has been to 6 Finals. Is the all time leader in 3 pointers made. And has undisputedly changed the direction of the NBA permanently. LBJ dominated within the game, as have others before him. Steph changed how people played the game. He doesn't have as many accolades but he's going to have a bigger impact on the NBA itself. MJ before him. Wilt before that.

It's a very short list of players who alter the direction of their sport. Steph is on that list, Lebron is not.

And I'm still agreeing that LBJ is the better overall talent than Steph but it makes me rethink if Bron is really 2nd greatest overall.

 

[Vogg]

No one said he's not a great player. He's actually been to 10 Finals, not 8. But in his era, Steph has been to 6 Finals. Is the all time leader in 3 pointers made. And has undisputedly changed the direction of the NBA permanently. LBJ dominated within the game, as have others before him. Steph changed how people played the game. He doesn't have as many accolades but he's going to have a bigger impact on the NBA itself. MJ before him. Wilt before that.

It's a very short list of players who alter the direction of their sport. Steph is on that list, Lebron is not.

And I'm still agreeing that LBJ is the better overall talent than Steph but it makes me rethink if Bron is really 2nd greatest overall.

You should rethink it because he’s the GOAT not #2

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Kobe wasn’t better than Lebron you mark

LeBron was playing with drew Gooden.

lmao @ lebron losing to curry

delly was the 2nd best player on the cavs in that finals, just stop with the bullshit

and he just missed the playoffs with davis and westbrook lol

 

[Vogg]

and he just missed the playoffs with davis and westbrook lol

It was a season full of injuries and they have no depth. LeGOAT isn’t 26 anymore. He’s 38, tons of mileage, in the most talented nba era ever. It is lebrons fault he’s hitched his wagon to GayD who just doesn’t play.

 

[Sweater of AV]

The list is way too long on why Le-bitch isn’t top 5.

1. Historic Flop artist
2. Stacked his teams
3. Fired his coaches
4. The Heat PR stunt
5. Cry baby
6. Last two seasons was a quitter
7. 4 rings
8. When he won with the Cavs the east was so bad they only had one real competition. Similar with the Heat
9. He’s a big pile of shit that couldn’t win in the Olympics twice until Kobe entered the chat
10. Not even worthy of carrying Kobe, Russel, Kareem or Magic’s jock strap

11. Needed Allen, Wade, and Kyrie to perform in the clutch because he’s a can
12. 1 scoring title
13. Locked down by JJ Barea
14. Cries when Kawhi Leonard checks in
15. Losing record in Finals even with the refs on his team

 

[GSPenn1991]

1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. MJ

All are amazing but MJ I'd definetely not 1 or 2. He's good, but there is just better talents we have seen than him. This is coming from the biggest mj fan out there. He's my idol.

 

[gspieler]

Lebron is fringe top 5 all-time...

MJ
KAJ
Wilt
Magic
Lebron

You could make a case for a few other names on that list(Steph is not among them).

I'd have Lebron on Mt Rushmore, for being the premiere player of the 21st century, and there is a decent argument to be made that he is #2 all-time. But he isn't; his legacy is just too shaky to definitively put him as the standalone #2(team hopping, weak leadership ability, mediocre Finals record, mental softness, etc).

 

[TeTe]

Bill Russell was better than all of them.

Since we're obsessed with rings and all.

 

[My Spot]

lol @ Steph being above Lebron. 1x FMVP and got clowned by some white guy from Australia in a Finals game 7 at home.