UFN 89 - Wonderboy vs Waterboy - 6/18 - Ontario

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Without making any predictions on Côté-Cerrone, I want to respond to some of the guys in this thread who seem to believe that Cote is an elite fighter. I encourage all of you to dig up Côté-Voelker, in which Côté has a lot of trouble with a C-level fighter. It wasn't really that long ago.
 
Dude, fighters improve. We arent saying he is a world beater....
Dude, then I wasn't responding to you. I just see a lot of people who seem to believe that Côté is now a top-level fighter and I strongly disagree. Of course fighters improve. I just think some people are overreacting to Côté's recent wins over lower-level competition and forgetting that he's basically still the same guy who Voelker was beating up. It's similar to Oblivian's point regarding Cole Miller.
 
I like Cerrone. I think Cerrone is the better standup fighter and will turn Cote into a wrestler. Do I think Cote can steal the fight using his wrestling? Only the judges know that.

Cote has been on a nice little run but he hasen't beat anybody of note. If he gets past Cerrone I take my hat off. My Cowboy hat that is. .
 
Im on Cote but im playing the odds. I dont think Cote has many advantages over Cerrone but the size advantage might be a big one. Furthermore, it's also well known that Cerrone can get badly hurt with body shots and I think this is something that a guy like Cote can exploit. The big question for me however is if Cerrone can do something from his guard, I imagine Cote will be able to take him down at some point partly due to the size advantage.
 
This fight really makes me itch, I just want to dump my life savings on Cote. Im already in 500 on Cote. Cote has turned a corner in his career and has fought guys like Tito & Anderson. Cote Has a chin made of steel. He is going to overwhelm Cerrone. Cerrone is going to get the Ben Henderson/McGregor treatment.
 
Beating a few B level guys don't mean 'you're back'. Has Cote improved? Most definitely, Is he going to beat Cerrone? Probably not.
 
Why cant he probably beat Cote? Add something to the discussion. Its easy to say fighter A can probably beat fighter B.

Because if you actually look at his fights, against B level competition like Riggs, Noke and Burkman he has close competitive fights with them. If hes this super improved version of himself then why is he having close fights with these guys? He should be dusting them.

As soon as Cote takes a step up in competition he is going to lose.
 
Good discussion about Cowboy vs Cote. I finally bit on Cote at +150 and Cote by 3 round decision at +260. I'm not going going heavy on it but I think Patrick has a decent chance of winning and the odds are in his favor.
 
Wanna know the reality of Cote/Cerrone? My word is final and absolute, so you can all just stop discussing it after this post LOL. (Kidding of course).

But really, here's how I see it:

Cote has rounded out his game and become a very good fighter. Not elite, not great, but really good.

Cerrone is the slightest shade below elite, and it might be fair to call him "great", assuming that's the next step down from "elite".

So you have a naturally smaller guy who's slightly more skilled and has beaten better competion (albeit at lower weight classes mostly) against a bigger guy who is maybe a bit less skilled overall but is probably more durable. So who do you bet on? IMO, you bet whoever the dog is. So you bet Cote. Either guy can win, and imo if this isn't a toss up it's very close to one.
 
I think Cerrone is going to surprise a lot of you guys. You seem too caught up in the whole 'Cotes so much bigger than Cerrone' notion to realize its the size of the warrior spirit not the warrior.
 
I think Cerrone is going to surprise a lot of you guys. You seem too caught up in the whole 'Cotes so much bigger than Cerrone' notion to realize its the size of the warrior spirit not the warrior.

I love Cowboy, and don't like rooting against him. To think size doesn't matter in MMA is pretty foolish though. Cote has a pretty good warrior spirit too. He's eaten bombs and kept coming.

Cerrone can ABSOLUTELY win. Hell I might even favor him ever so slightly. But betting is about capping and odds. If I think this is a 52/48 fight in favor of Cerrone but can get Cote at +160 of course I'll bet Cote.
 
. If I think this is a 52/48 fight in favor of Cerrone but can get Cote at +160 of course I'll bet Cote.

Should be Cerrone 64 /Cote 36 imo. Cerrone is proven against the tops guys, Cote is not.
 
Should be Cerrone 64 /Cote 36 imo. Cerrone is proven against the tops guys, Cote is not.

Disagree but it's really not THAT far apart from my view. You think it's 12% more likely Cerrone wins. Not unreasonable, but those type of differences make all the difference when capping and betting and finding value. You may well be right, just not how I see it.
 
Cote's changed his game up a lot over the past few years. He 's went from being a let's bang bro guy on the feet to a much more conservative and thoughtful fighter who has gotten a lot better with his wrasslin and has chosen to use that moreso than relying on his chin and power to get him through fights like he did in the past. Burkman basically forced him into a firefight and we saw that Cote's switch in style definitely wasn't b/c his chin is gone or he doesn't believe in his standup anymore. I have won a ton of money on josh in the past, especially during his wsof run where he was criminally underrated in a few fights and overrated in another, but he got fucking destroyed by that Quebec power.

He showed he still had a lot left in both of those areas, he changed his game up to prolong his career imo and it almost seems more natural for him to grapple nowadays rather than stand and throwdown on the feet. He grappled with Voelker, Noke, Riggs, etc. I don't think he's going to chose to stand ith Cerrone unless Cerrone just goes out there and tries to take his head of like Burkman did.

Cowboy much more of a measured striker than Burkman is I thnk Cerrone will come to make this a kickboxing fight like always and Cote will come to grapple. That's my take at least, so the big ? to me is if Cote can get this down how will he do with Cerrone's guard and if he can't get this down how will he fare standing? Not sure on either account. I think this will be a tougher fight on the feet than maybe some other people think and maybe even Cerrone himself. Just b/c Cote doesn't prefer to throw hands and trade on the feet anymore doesn't mean he's not able to still be able to do some serious damage. Also needs to be noted that Cote easily the naturally bigger and stronger, more powerful man in this fight.

However, like I mentioned, Cowboy is a much more technical, measured, and better overall striker than Burkman is. I think if Cote has his way he gets td's and stifles Cerrone from on top. Cowboy is a really good grappler with a really good guard, though, and I think he can make it tough for Cote to just be able to grind him out from on top. Remember, Evan Dunham, bb in bjj, only been subbed once in his entire career, Cowboy caught him with a triangle from guard.

I don't think this will be easy for either guy even if they get their way. however there's something to say about Cowboy losing only 3 times in his last 12 fights. That's fucking impressive, especially considering his level of comp is always very decent and he tends to take a lot of his fights on short notice. Also as, EZ mentioned, he seems like his achilles heel is taking hard shots to the body and Cote is more of a boxer who likes to headhunt than go to the body much. Of those 3 losses, two of them came by way of kicks to the body by Pettis and RDA in their rematch, respectively. The other loss was RDA in the first fight and we've all come to see how much of a beast RDA is, Pettis is a former champ and sick stand up fighter in his own right.

All in all, although i think this is a very intriguing fight that could end up being competitive, I think if either guy comes out with a clear win it's gonna be Cowboy. Hard to go against him, he's so well rounded and he only loses to the cream of the crop. Check this out, before his last lost to RDA he rattled off 8 consecutive wins over the likes of Dunham, Martins, Barboza, Miller, Jury, Eddie Alvarez, Miles Jury, Benson, and Makdessi. Holy fucking shit, that's impressive as hell, not to mention since his loss he made Brazilian Cowboy look like an amateur. At -170 I have to stick with cowboy to find a way to get it done. Cote's gonna be tough but I think Cerrone takes this one by sub or Dec.

Anyway I get arguments for both sides, Cote's got a granite chin a lot of power and his wrassling has improved a ton in recent years. I just think Cerrone is gonna be too much for him here. Just my opinion but Cerrone just doesn't seem to lose to people who aren't at the highest level. Cote is still a very good fighter but I don't think he's at the level to beat Cerrone at this point in their careers. /rant
 
Well said Blunt, however only thing I disagree with is giving cowboy credit on the ground for submitting Dunham. I'm pretty sure Cowboy had Dunham hurt on the feet before he submitted him, you know the whole hit a black belt he turns into a purple thing. .
 
Well said Blunt, however only thing I disagree with is giving cowboy credit on the ground for submitting Dunham. I'm pretty sure Cowboy had Dunham hurt on the feet before he submitted him, you know the whole hit a black belt he turns into a purple thing. .

You're right he did have him hurt prior, don't remember how long after that he subbed Dunham but still find it impressive when you're able to sub a high level grappler like Dunham from guard, you don't see that very often in modern mma.
 
Follow me to victory. Always bet on fighters with high fight IQ:
Stephen Thompson -115 to defeat Rory Macdonald


"To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." -Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." -Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." -Bruce Lee
 
Always bet on fighters with high fight IQ? Well then why not bet on Rory? He is more complete fighter, has fought the top fighters in the division and is arguably Wonderboy's toughest challenge? AND he is only +100.
its hard to gauge who has the higher fight iq they both seem like smart guys, but I will say wonderboy does have the higher striking iq and imho the fight mostly stays on the feet. rory did keep boxing in the pocket with Robbie as the fight progressed which firas kept telling him not to do. maybe not the smartest choice. i kind of feel like rory used to use more head movement back in the day. his head seems pretty stationary as of late
 
You're right he did have him hurt prior, don't remember how long after that he subbed Dunham but still find it impressive when you're able to sub a high level grappler like Dunham from guard, you don't see that very often in modern mma.

Cowboy's guard is CRIMINALLY underrated. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who's betting Cote. Cowboy's guard for MMA isn't good, it's BRILLIANT. That's why although overall your B/D was excellent, I think you are off on Cote wanting to grapple in this fight. I think he avoids Cowboy's guard, because I think he knows it's better than anyone he's faced (including Saunders).

I can see Cote shooting for takedowns late in rounds to try to steal them knowing Cowboy won't have time to work his guard, but other than that I think Cote tries to make it a standup fight in a phone booth. In other words, close distance and pressure Cerrone and try to use clinch and dirty boxing, but don't level change or shoot too much. Because A) Like I said, Cowboy's guard is just disgustingly good and B) Cowboy throws those straight knees up the middle that are easy to run into face first if you are changing levels too much looking for takedowns.
 
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