Volume question

Most people "working sets" are basically warm ups. A working set has to failure or damn near it (granted squatting to failure is not that smart).

Kinda depends. A set at RPE 7 doesn't feel that hard, the bar speed should be pretty good, it's 4 reps short of failure, 3 reps short of an all out grind. Of course these are approximations. I think a large amount of volume could be RPEs 7-8 and maybe some top sets at 9-10. The warm ups still contribute to the overall volume, they just don't provide as much of an effect, I think. Constantly going to failure usually isn't worth it either from a benefit/fatigue standpoint, at least in terms of strength training. For pure hypertrophy training I'm less sure.

I would recommend TS to up the amount of reps to 8-12 and go pretty much all out in the last one. He will get bigger and stronger. It is also safer than doing heavy triples all the time.

There's nothing particularly better about sets of 8-12 compared to other rep ranges. There's also been a bunch of work coming out now showing that, at equal volumes and proximity to failure, sets of 5 all the way up to 20 reps produce similar hypertrophy responses. It kinda depends on how you structure your training and what your goals are and how you define "strength". If you're interested in increasing your 1RM you need to practice getting under heavy weights at some point. It's really not unsafe to do triples or any other rep range, it's more of a matter of load management and good technique than anything else.
 
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Kinda depends. A set at RPE 7 doesn't feel that hard, the bar speed should be pretty good, it's 4 reps short of failure, 3 reps short of an all out grind. Of course these are approximations. I think a large amount of volume should be RPEs 7-8 and maybe some top sets at 9 or so. The warm ups still contribute to the overall volume, they just don't provide as much of an effect, I think. Constantly going to failure usually isn't worth it either from a benefit/fatigue standpoint, at least in terms of strength training. For pure hypertrophy training I'm less sure.
Yeah.. but I think most people dont even reach a RPE of 7. At least in my gym lol.

There's nothing particularly better about sets of 8-12 compared to other rep ranges. There's also a bunch of work out there now showing that, at equal volumes and proximity to failure, sets of 5 all the way up to 20 reps produce similar hypertrophy responses. It kinda depends on how you structure your training and what your goals are and how you define "strength". If you're interested in increasing your 1RM you need to practice getting under heavy weights at some point. It's really not unsafe to do triples or any other rep range, it's more of a matter of load management and good technique than anything else.
TS says he is a begginer so the chances are his technique is not super clean and the risk of getting hurt would increase going closer to his RM. I would let the heavy shit for when he has a little more experience. Its not like he is prepping for a meet or something.

BTW my advice is based on my own personal experience so take it with a grain of salt. I can train to failure pretty much in every session and recover just fine to hit the same workout 3 days later (I do a 3 day split btw)... but when I tried to work in a lower volume (did 3 or 4 5/3/1 cycles) my body just fell apart and injuries started to show (to be fair a bunch of them come from my kickboxing days). Maybe I went too hard too soon or my body is not made for that.
 
Yeah.. but I think most people dont even reach a RPE of 7. At least in my gym lol.


TS says he is a begginer so the chances are his technique is not super clean and the risk of getting hurt would increase going closer to his RM. I would let the heavy shit for when he has a little more experience. Its not like he is prepping for a meet or something.

BTW my advice is based on my own personal experience so take it with a grain of salt. I can train to failure pretty much in every session and recover just fine to hit the same workout 3 days later (I do a 3 day split btw)... but when I tried to work in a lower volume (did 3 or 4 5/3/1 cycles) my body just fell apart and injuries started to show (to be fair a bunch of them come from my kickboxing days). Maybe I went too hard too soon or my body is not made for that.

You quit after only 3 cycles? If your body is falling apart that early on in that program then something isn't right. Poor recovery and nutrition, overestimated 1rm when starting out, or miscalculated working percentages. When you start 5/3/1 you're generally stripping a good amount of weight off the bar and your progress should be slow but steady.
 
Agreed.

I know a lot of people think more is more and maybe TS is guilty of it. Sano, you've probably seen this study comparing German Volume Training vs a program with half the amount of volume. Small sample size over the course of 12 weeks but the 10x10 group showed no significant benefit in that type of training over the 5x10 group.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969184/

I'd imagine there's a psychological component to facing a hard 10x10 exercise too. Major gut check during every single workout. Doesn't seem like a sustainable way to lift weights.

I remember back in like 04 at school I did some 10 x 10 squat program. I made good gains but as a newb at the time anything probably would of worked. These days I ramp from the bar (or 130 on deads). My actual hard sets are about 3-4 per exercise (like I'll do 6 x 4 on my work sets or 3 x 10).
 
You quit after only 3 cycles? If your body is falling apart that early on in that program then something isn't right. Poor recovery and nutrition, overestimated 1rm when starting out, or miscalculated working percentages. When you start 5/3/1 you're generally stripping a good amount of weight off the bar and your progress should be slow but steady.
With 3 cycles I mean the whole 12 weeks stuff where you do the whole thing + the deload week. So it was like 36 weeks of doing that. I dont think I should go any further to prove that it was not the right program to me. I know it has been beneficial for a lot of people but it did not felt right to me.
Anyways.. that is my experience and I think it has to do with my bodytype, genetics, past injuries, etc. I can handle a shit ton of volume and sets to failure while simultaneously doing 1+ hours of cardio in my bike everyday (I bike to work)... but whenever I do these low volume programs my joints start to fail me and I dont feel as energetic.
Only thing I do kind of close to my 1 RM these days is deadlift and that is because I love it. So once a week or so I go for a strong triple.
 
With 3 cycles I mean the whole 12 weeks stuff where you do the whole thing + the deload week. So it was like 36 weeks of doing that. I dont think I should go any further to prove that it was not the right program to me. I know it has been beneficial for a lot of people but it did not felt right to me.
Anyways.. that is my experience and I think it has to do with my bodytype, genetics, past injuries, etc. I can handle a shit ton of volume and sets to failure while simultaneously doing 1+ hours of cardio in my bike everyday (I bike to work)... but whenever I do these low volume programs my joints start to fail me and I dont feel as energetic.
Only thing I do kind of close to my 1 RM these days is deadlift and that is because I love it. So once a week or so I go for a strong triple.

I guess I'm confused as to what you call a cycle on 5/3/1. As it's written in the program a cycle is considered 4 weeks long so when you said you only completed 3-4 cycles it sounds like 12-16 weeks in total. At 36 weeks you've reached 9 cycles which makes a lot more sense since things should be getting quite a bit tougher around that point.
 
Not to loud as to where it makes your ears ring after but not to quiet that it doesn't get you focused/motivated.
 
With 3 cycles I mean the whole 12 weeks stuff where you do the whole thing + the deload week. So it was like 36 weeks of doing that. I dont think I should go any further to prove that it was not the right program to me. I know it has been beneficial for a lot of people but it did not felt right to me.
Anyways.. that is my experience and I think it has to do with my bodytype, genetics, past injuries, etc. I can handle a shit ton of volume and sets to failure while simultaneously doing 1+ hours of cardio in my bike everyday (I bike to work)... but whenever I do these low volume programs my joints start to fail me and I dont feel as energetic.
Only thing I do kind of close to my 1 RM these days is deadlift and that is because I love it. So once a week or so I go for a strong triple.

This doesn't make much sense. If you can handle higher volume, why can't your joint handle something that has less volume and is submaximal work like 5/3/1?
 
This doesn't make much sense. If you can handle higher volume, why can't your joint handle something that has less volume and is submaximal work like 5/3/1?
I think it makes perfect sense.
More weight puts more stress on my joints.. which in my case are clearly not made for lifting heavy stuff.
 
I guess I'm confused as to what you call a cycle on 5/3/1. As it's written in the program a cycle is considered 4 weeks long so when you said you only completed 3-4 cycles it sounds like 12-16 weeks in total. At 36 weeks you've reached 9 cycles which makes a lot more sense since things should be getting quite a bit tougher around that point.
Yeah. My memory failed me.
I was doing the whole 4 weeks things (5/3/1 and then the deload which I skipped) adding up weight for the next cycle (doing 3 times in total)... then I did something else for a few weeks and came back to it.
Also tried the boring but big variation but wasnt liking it.

Honestly my shortcomings doing powerlifting programs might be due to the fact that I find that type of training kind of boring. I actually enjoy my current routine way more.
 
I think it makes perfect sense.
More weight puts more stress on my joints.. which in my case are clearly not made for lifting heavy stuff.

I think you're doing 5/3/1 wrong. 5/3/1 doesn't use heavy weights if you're doing the program right. It's a submaximal program. You should be getting high reps on the amrap sets. You also skipped the deload and wondering why your joints are hurting. Also, 5/3/1 isn't a powerlifting program.
 
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I think you're doing 5/3/1 wrong. 5/3/1 doesn't use heavy weights if you're doing the program right. It's a submaximal program. You should be getting high reps on the amrap sets. You also skipped the deload and wondering why your joints are hurting. Also, 5/3/1 isn't a powerlifting program.
Always like 5/3/1...and I agree the deload is there for a reason. I also think to get the most out of 5/3/1 you need to hit the accessory work pretty hard. I saw amazing results with it. I would not say it caused my max out to go up a lot but I was able to hit 90% + loads for a lot of reps on the AMRAP sets. Both Squat and dead. Press was kinda meh but better for sure.
 
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