What is better in general: Westside Barbell vs D1 College Football Programs?

[Fedor5723]

Was going to mix Westside Barbell for Athletics with Iowa Football 2017 Strength Program? Or should I choose one?

 

[Poon Goon]

Looks like the Iowa program has curls included so it is superior. You should also consider mentioning more details about your experience level, goals, etc.

 

[Volador]

Post the programs bro

 

[deadshot138]

Didn't nfl teams use westside? Probably better than a collegiate program then. But for your purposes either will probably be fine. Unless you're actually going to be in college or pro ball.

 

[JimRussel]

Don't use Westside.

 

[MilkManUK]

Don't use Westside.

What makes you say that @JimRussel ?
I haven't had much exposure to Westside, other than hearing the name banded about and I also watched the "vs The World" documentary, but no experience of it as regards to a training program. Just interested on your take on it.

 

[deadshot138]

What makes you say that @JimRussel ?
I haven't had much exposure to Westside, other than hearing the name banded about and I also watched the "vs The World" documentary, but no experience of it as regards to a training program. Just interested on your take on it.

It's largely for drug abusing equipped lifters. But I found it to be fun and produced decent results. People aren't fans of maxing every week on certain movements either. And the usefulness of speed work is up for debate. Louie himself would swap volume days into programs and take speed days out.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Dont mix the two programs. Westside is a great way to program.

 

[washedupmeathead]

I have followed Simmons stuff since his Powerlifting USA articles. Looking for the Iowa program it looks like the state of Iowa actually publishes it
http://publications.iowa.gov/27142/1/Iowa Football 2017.pdf

I am sure Westside is much more powerlifting orientated. The problem with Westside to me is that Simmons is going to always be highly biased towards proving powerlifting is the greatest thing ever. The Westside gym is only like 10 minutes from Ohio State too. Joey and Nick Bosa could have went there if they wanted all the time but didn't.

On the other hand you have to consider that the Iowa program is not to build you into a D1 athlete. It is a workout for large groups of the best athlete in your high school, many who are most certainly the strongest lifters before college and have already been lifting for years. Like in the NFL, the job is not to squeeze the last possible bit of performance out at all cost but to get the best squeeze with no chance of injury. If you are not a D1 freak you might have to risk more.

I honestly don't know if anything matters in high school football besides for your squat anyway. If you can 2.5x body weight squat you are going to be a problem to deal with on the field in high school. If you can only 1.4x squat, I just don't know how much your bench or whatever would matter if up against a kid that can 2X.

 

[vision1]

I honestly don't know if anything matters in high school football besides for your squat anyway

Are you joking?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Westside or rather the conjugate method(just a piece of the westside method) isn't just used for powerlifting although it is great for that to. The system has produced champions in multiple different sports. Anybody that says otherwise is misinformed.

That said I scoured that Iowa program and its not bad either.

There are really unlimited ways to train. Best bet is to pick one and do it.

 

[thugpoet]

It's largely for drug abusing equipped lifters. But I found it to be fun and produced decent results. People aren't fans of maxing every week on certain movements either. And the usefulness of speed work is up for debate. Louie himself would swap volume days into programs and take speed days out.

Westside is a sound system and there are a few people who are using it who are natural and raw. Just so happens that it wasn't the norm.

Most people who use the system don't use the dynamic work use the max effort and volume work. Which I think is the most logical way to train for strength and size in the first place not necessarily using westside protocols.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

I have followed Simmons stuff since his Powerlifting USA articles. Looking for the Iowa program it looks like the state of Iowa actually publishes it
http://publications.iowa.gov/27142/1/Iowa Football 2017.pdf

I am sure Westside is much more powerlifting orientated. The problem with Westside to me is that Simmons is going to always be highly biased towards proving powerlifting is the greatest thing ever. The Westside gym is only like 10 minutes from Ohio State too. Joey and Nick Bosa could have went there if they wanted all the time but didn't.

On the other hand you have to consider that the Iowa program is not to build you into a D1 athlete. It is a workout for large groups of the best athlete in your high school, many who are most certainly the strongest lifters before college and have already been lifting for years. Like in the NFL, the job is not to squeeze the last possible bit of performance out at all cost but to get the best squeeze with no chance of injury. If you are not a D1 freak you might have to risk more.

I honestly don't know if anything matters in high school football besides for your squat anyway. If you can 2.5x body weight squat you are going to be a problem to deal with on the field in high school. If you can only 1.4x squat, I just don't know how much your bench or whatever would matter if up against a kid that can 2X.

...but Clemson went up to Columbus to learn from Louie. It's weird. I don't hear about too many Buckeyes training w Westside when preparing for the Combine. Does Coach Mick hate Westside or something?

 

[washedupmeathead]

Or the strength coach at Clemson was just a Louie worshiper, I mean I totally get that. It does seem like there was some bad blood or rivalry between OSU S&C and Westside though. The players though as individuals could have just decided to go there in the off season but really didn't/do not.

Not just football but even more so with wrestling. It is not like someone like Kyle Snyder when he was at OSU would have had no idea what is sitting there 10 minutes away from him.

...but Clemson went up to Columbus to learn from Louie. It's weird. I don't hear about too many Buckeyes training w Westside when preparing for the Combine. Does Coach Mick hate Westside or something?

 

[washedupmeathead]

I hate Wisconsin football but I am a Braelon Allen fan. I think he is doing some really interesting stuff in this training video but I don't know how much anything after he squats matters if you can't squat what he is doing relative to his body weight.
If he could only do 225, I just can't imagine that the sum of all the other stuff would even be close to being able to squat 315 in terms of on the field performance.

I would do a ton of prowler work myself but it can't be a good idea to program a high school football program with tons of prowler sprints so everyone quits besides for the most obsessed meatheads. Or they stick with it but are not putting out 100%.

It could even be the optimal program for high school football is like squat twice a week but you have to put out 100% and then do 5 sets of 5 movements that you think will help you and give defaults in case they don't want to think about it at all. Then have the OCD meathead kids do something that Louie Simmons would have programmed up for football if they really want.

Are you joking?

 

[vision1]

I hate Wisconsin football but I am a Braelon Allen fan. I think he is doing some really interesting stuff in this training video but I don't know how much anything after he squats matters if you can't squat what he is doing relative to his body weight.
If he could only do 225, I just can't imagine that the sum of all the other stuff would even be close to being able to squat 315 in terms of on the field performance.

I would do a ton of prowler work myself but it can't be a good idea to program a high school football program with tons of prowler sprints so everyone quits besides for the most obsessed meatheads. Or they stick with it but are not putting out 100%.

It could even be the optimal program for high school football is like squat twice a week but you have to put out 100% and then do 5 sets of 5 movements that you think will help you and give defaults in case they don't want to think about it at all. Then have the OCD meathead kids do something that Louie Simmons would have programmed up for football if they really want.

I guess the way you worded it was just confusing.
I agree a large relative squat is a good measure of athleticism for football. But I don’t think the best squatters are always the best football players. And I don’t think squats are a must even if they’re a good measure. Plenty of great exercises out there.

 

[washedupmeathead]

Oh of course not. That is actually my point as far as a type of religious fervor people develop towards absolute strength because of powerlifting, as expressed by the high priest Louie Simmons. There is a large congregation that I imagine will just grow larger in time.

On the other hand, the best player on the field isn't going to max out at 1X body weight on back squat either. I am not sure what the baseline on the low end is but I know the high end is like 2X-2.5X and then it is diminishing returns as far as absolute strength and then you can start training special strengths like Braelon is training after squatting in that video.

I wish they swapped the bench press at the combine for squat somehow as to regress squat vs vertical. I just can't imagine those not being highly correlated. To me, the most naive model of football possible is to maximize vertical across the whole team. The correlation in high school between vert and body weight/squat has to be in the .8s. I could be way off but I just can't imagine that. I just can't see a kid with an impressive vertical that squats 1x BW.

I guess the way you worded it was just confusing.
I agree a large relative squat is a good measure of athleticism for football. But I don’t think the best squatters are always the best football players. And I don’t think squats are a must even if they’re a good measure. Plenty of great exercises out there.

 

[Poon Goon]

Goals were never mentioned so I will add my two cents. I have been doing a conjugate based program for a little bit now and I think it's fine. I believe I am getting stronger and I haven't killed myself doing it yet. To me the most important thing is that I enjoy this style of training. I'm not training for any kind of competition and I wouldn't be surprised if there were better methods out there, but I think it's fun.

Better to do a reasonably constructed program that you enjoy than to start a program that you don't like and end up quitting or not following it.

 

[washedupmeathead]

There is no program for 1 ply vs 2 ply. This point has been made by Tate and Wendler before but there is no program for TRT and then a different program for TRT + tren.

The whole point of using a conjugated system of training is to be able to train more. To me, that should be the first caveat with anything involving Westside. This is a system to max out on the amount of work you can do.

Not a system of magical movements that if done in the correct order produce something special. That is the religious bullshit aspect.

Westside is a sound system and there are a few people who are using it who are natural and raw. Just so happens that it wasn't the norm.

Most people who use the system don't use the dynamic work use the max effort and volume work. Which I think is the most logical way to train for strength and size in the first place not necessarily using westside protocols.

 

[thugpoet]

There is no program for 1 ply vs 2 ply. This point has been made by Tate and Wendler before but there is no program for TRT and then a different program for TRT + tren.

The whole point of using a conjugated system of training is to be able to train more. To me, that should be the first caveat with anything involving Westside. This is a system to max out on the amount of work you can do.

Not a system of magical movements that if done in the correct order produce something special. That is the religious bullshit aspect.

Not sure if you are agreeing or not.

There's no magic bullet to training put in the work and call it a day.

But guys like alpha destiny have shown that you can use a conjugate based system to build size and strength.

I don't agree with all of the westside system but I won't disrespect the results because that's what they have produced.

Ps basically all systems of any merit have athletics on the sauce.