What made Samart Payakaroon so successful?

[EatMyShorts]

Better to watch full fights vs highlight vids and we can see they weren't one sided domination.

He ate some shots, but typically came out one top.

I'm drawing comparisons between him and probably the most successful contemporary kickboxer in Qiu Jiangliang



What set Samart apart, I believe, was he actually incorporated a looser almost taikwando style, vs the very rigid plodding thai style.

But he had that also, he simply combined both.

He used side kicks, occasionally the karate style kick in addition to the heavy thai kick.

Looser, flows, more diverse techniques, all allowing him to find openings a little better.

....

Much like Qiu, has that loose quick style and more diverse array of techniques.

i.e. thai style is the most advanced kickboxing style without a doubt, but there's a way to make it better, basically.

More diverse "movement" (McGregors catch phrase), speed as with point fighting almost etc.

 

[EatMyShorts]

Another highly successful albeit lesser known kickboxer that used a similar approach,



Had all the components of the thai style, heavy kicks/punches etc, but additionally the point fight style with loose quick spinning kicks etc.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

1st red flag is perpetuation the myth that Thai style boxing is plodding. Simply not true.

He learned the early Sityodtong style from Yodtong Senan. All the people he taught had a strong smooth muay femur style.



You can see Samart teach Max Holloway the same way of kicking here:




Generally it was his use of the jab and teep (which was sometimes a side teep, not always) to keep his opponents off rhythm. In truth Samart Payakaroon didn't do anything that his contemporaries didn't outside of a little more emphasis from English boxing, he was just simply better than the rest, but even then, only just, he has stiff competition from Dieselnoi, Vicharnoi etc. on the all time rankings.

People freak out about the fact he slipped punches, even though that wasn't rare in the sport at the time and literally any monkey can do it, you just need to be trained properly, some people seem to think he had this magic X factor that let him slip punches really well, he didn't. He just learned how to do it and then made it work like anyone else would.



Vicharnoi makes a lot of use of the side teep in that video too. Nothing to do with Taekwondo.

Bouncy in and out McGregor esque footwork doesn't work in Muay Thai, it doesn't improve it, and neither does plodding, you just get your legs smashed up, you need to be quick and controlled. Put Qiu Jianliang in a muay thai stadium and he's going to have a bad time.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

1st red flag is perpetuation the myth that Thai style boxing is plodding. Simply not true.

He learned the early Sityodtong style from Yodtong Senan. All the people he taught had a strong smooth muay femur style.



You can see Samart teach Max Holloway the same way of kicking here:




Generally it was his use of the jab and teep (which was sometimes a side teep, not always) to keep his opponents off rhythm. In truth Samart Payakaroon didn't do anything that his contemporaries didn't outside of a little more emphasis from English boxing, he was just simply better than the rest, but even then, only just, he has stiff competition from Dieselnoi, Vicharnoi etc. on the all time rankings.

People freak out about the fact he slipped punches, even though that wasn't rare in the sport at the time and literally any monkey can do it, you just need to be trained properly, some people seem to think he had this magic X factor that let him slip punches really well, he didn't. He just learned how to do it and then made it work like anyone else would.



Vicharnoi makes a lot of use of the side teep in that video too. Nothing to do with Taekwondo.

Bouncy in and out McGregor esque footwork doesn't work in Muay Thai, it doesn't improve it, and neither does plodding, you just get your legs smashed up, you need to be quick and controlled. Put Qiu Jianliang in a muay thai stadium and he's going to have a bad time.

Yes TS seems to have a pretty poor understanding of what MT is.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Yes TS seems to have a pretty poor understanding of what MT is.

Seems that way, but I don't begrudge him - everyone has to start somewhere, he knows Samart Payakaroon, so he's on the right track

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Seems that way, but I don't begrudge him - everyone has to start somewhere, he knows Samart Payakaroon, so he's on the right track

It's really funny how inaccurate the MT stereotypes are amongst people who have not followed golden era stadium stuff. I myself used to have utterly crappy knowledge and I cringe whenever some old ass threads of mine get necroed ha ha.

Truth is, nothing is more diverse and versatile as a combat system than golden era MT.

 

[StopDucking]

Better to watch full fights vs highlight vids and we can see they weren't one sided domination.

He ate some shots, but typically came out one top.

I'm drawing comparisons between him and probably the most successful contemporary kickboxer in Qiu Jiangliang



What set Samart apart, I believe, was he actually incorporated a looser almost taikwando style, vs the very rigid plodding thai style.

But he had that also, he simply combined both.

He used side kicks, occasionally the karate style kick in addition to the heavy thai kick.

Looser, flows, more diverse techniques, all allowing him to find openings a little better.

....

Much like Qiu, has that loose quick style and more diverse array of techniques.

i.e. thai style is the most advanced kickboxing style without a doubt, but there's a way to make it better, basically.

More diverse "movement" (McGregors catch phrase), speed as with point fighting almost etc.

This is post-prime Samart, after he went to boxing because there was nobody else for him to fight. Still, he later came back to muay thai and knocked out the reigning champ. Learn some history before you start drawing conclusions based on a random fight on YouTube.

PS: the fight is random, not the opponent. Samransak "Iron Fist" Muangsurin is a killer.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

This is post-prime Samart, after he went to boxing because there was nobody else for him to fight. Still, he later came back to muay thai and knocked out the reigning champ. Learn some history before you start drawing conclusions based on a random fight on YouTube.

PS: the fight is random, not the opponent. Samransak "Iron Fist" Muangsurin is a killer.

I remember that fight. Samransak is a killer and looked like a bum vs Samart. Just shows how above everyone Samart was. Him and Somrak are GOATS.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Better to watch full fights vs highlight vids and we can see they weren't one sided domination.

He ate some shots, but typically came out one top.

I'm drawing comparisons between him and probably the most successful contemporary kickboxer in Qiu Jiangliang



What set Samart apart, I believe, was he actually incorporated a looser almost taikwando style, vs the very rigid plodding thai style.

But he had that also, he simply combined both.

He used side kicks, occasionally the karate style kick in addition to the heavy thai kick.

Looser, flows, more diverse techniques, all allowing him to find openings a little better.

....

Much like Qiu, has that loose quick style and more diverse array of techniques.

i.e. thai style is the most advanced kickboxing style without a doubt, but there's a way to make it better, basically.

More diverse "movement" (McGregors catch phrase), speed as with point fighting almost etc.

please no. another clown that thinks they have something to offer thai boxing. boxers used to think the same thing (i'm a boxer) no other style has shit to offer mauy thai. they have seen it all before. also you really need to do some research, thai boxing is a format not a style, different coaches, different styles. @AndyMaBobs

 

[eternaldarkness]

1st red flag is perpetuation the myth that Thai style boxing is plodding. Simply not true.

He learned the early Sityodtong style from Yodtong Senan. All the people he taught had a strong smooth muay femur style.



You can see Samart teach Max Holloway the same way of kicking here:




Generally it was his use of the jab and teep (which was sometimes a side teep, not always) to keep his opponents off rhythm. In truth Samart Payakaroon didn't do anything that his contemporaries didn't outside of a little more emphasis from English boxing, he was just simply better than the rest, but even then, only just, he has stiff competition from Dieselnoi, Vicharnoi etc. on the all time rankings.

People freak out about the fact he slipped punches, even though that wasn't rare in the sport at the time and literally any monkey can do it, you just need to be trained properly, some people seem to think he had this magic X factor that let him slip punches really well, he didn't. He just learned how to do it and then made it work like anyone else would.



Vicharnoi makes a lot of use of the side teep in that video too. Nothing to do with Taekwondo.

Bouncy in and out McGregor esque footwork doesn't work in Muay Thai, it doesn't improve it, and neither does plodding, you just get your legs smashed up, you need to be quick and controlled. Put Qiu Jianliang in a muay thai stadium and he's going to have a bad time.

great post. very informative. i also was foolish enough to think other styles had something to offer thai, that was before i started studying it...

 

[yokerclown]

verz interesting video of max holoway on pads

 

[EatMyShorts]

Yes TS seems to have a pretty poor understanding of what MT is.

Dafuq?

I've won titles in it moron.

God forbid a dude should think outside the box and diversify/improve his style.

Qiu has broke up thai champions with his style - there's clearly merit to diversifying.

 

[EatMyShorts]

Tbh I responded to TS after reading only his 2 first sentences and decided the whole post wasn't worth my time. Your reply made me give it another try and... big mistake; it's one of the most retarded post I've ever read.

I'll write a more complete response later but first, can anyone tell me who the fuck that Qiu Jiangliang guy is?

He's an unlikeable dork looking dude who is, talent wise, the best p4p kickboxer currently.

 

[EatMyShorts]

I apologise for time wasting by proxy.

Qiu Jiangliang is another chinese kickboxer which means exactly what you expect, strong sanda background, looks good when throwing and rarely if ever fights outside of China against top level opposition. He has some respectable wins, but he's not the most successful kickboxer today like OP says.

BTW I'm not trying to call out OP or anything, I'm sure he's a nice guy, it's just most of what he's said is kinda wrong

Mosab Amrani was the Glory champion at the time they fought, Qiu stopped him pretty effortlessly.

He also chopped up Nong-O and Kaew Fairtex.

He's taken out the best thai fighters in his division, stadium champions etc.

I think he looks like a dork, but his style is clearly effective.

Not to mention in his weight class, he's ranked No. 1 in the world.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Mosab Amrani was the Glory champion at the time they fought, Qiu stopped him pretty effortlessly.

He also chopped up Nong-O and Kaew Fairtex.

He's taken out the best thai fighters in his division, stadium champions etc.

I think he looks like a dork, but his style is clearly effective.

Not to mention in his weight class, he's ranked No. 1 in the world.

Kaew is old.

Mosab Amrani has never been Glory Champion.

He didn't fight Nong-O

He hasn't taken out the best Thai boxers in his division, Pakorn, Rafi Bohic, Pongsiri, Petchmorrakot etc. + certainly wouldn't stand up to them under Thai rules, the springier movement would get him chopped down pretty quick.

And being 1 in his weight division, would still not make him the most successful kickboxer in the world, he's not the best from China. He's fine.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

He's an unlikeable dork looking dude who is, talent wise, the best p4p kickboxer currently.

That would be Takeru

 

[AndyMaBobs]

great post. very informative. i also was foolish enough to think other styles had something to offer thai, that was before i started studying it...

I don't have an issue with people thinking outside the box - but truthfully, if there was anything massive to be gained - Thais would already be doing it

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

some high level snobcuntery in this thread.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Dafuq?

I've won titles in it moron.

God forbid a dude should think outside the box and diversify/improve his style.

Qiu has broke up thai champions with his style - there's clearly merit to diversifying.

Not sure what you competed in but it wasn't muay Thai. You don't know your shit from your oatmeal.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Not sure what you competed in but it wasn't muay Thai. You don't know your shit from your oatmeal.

In my time coaching, I've yet to meet someone who wasn't a muay thai champion