When to break a partner’s arm

[dmwalking]

https://www.bjjreport.com/post/armb..._h3lfzhm5wFdZpQagSKcpKJ6Xnp9ORtIHGrCteWA1w_g8

Interesting article.

i say let go in the gym. You need your training partners healthy. Higher ranks should tell lower belts “hey be careful with holding out for subs. Your competition won’t be as kind as a training partner.” But the gym is practice. No need to injure each other. It’s counter productive.

In competition, break it. You both know the risks of competition.

in the street, one on one fair fight, (think road rage altercation) transition to a better control position. Breaking a limb can be considered excessive force if the legal system gets involved. And you open yourself up to civil suits as well. It’s not worth it. Better to just control them until they either calm down or until law enforcement shows up. Who’s gonna look like the bad guy? The one in full control calmly trying to deescalate the situation? Or the one being controlled behaving belligerently? You don’t need to prove anything in a street fight. You just wanna control the situation and stay out of jail.

In a legit self defense situation, break it. I mean, when it’s life or death, go for everything. Bite. Eye gouge. Ear tear. Groin strikes. Go full Krav Maga. Lol.

and on a side note, chokes are better than joint locks.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Breaking a training partner should almost never occur, though of course shit does happen sometimes in training any combat art. It should be carefully avoided on all sides to the best of everyone’s ability.

I’ve paused on submissions against whitebelts a bunch of times, if I am applying a slow finish & they are just squirming like a fish, & not 1. intelligently escaping, nor 2. tapping, to tell them they need to learn to do one or the other.

Usually tends to happen in kimuras & americanas, where there is a lot of variance in shoulder flexibility & people don’t know their limits. Although sometimes it happens even in armbars, where it should be obvious to anyone. Some people are just more stubborn and/or lost in the heat of a roll than others. I forgive this in whitebelts — but any rank beyond that having this problem is somewhat shameful. The tap & the bow are the main moves in jiujitsu you are supposed to master at whitebelt.

 

[Forceof1]

There is no scenario, in the training room, that justifies a break. Competition is different (not that I want to break something there either. I"m in the old man division and advanced, so most know better).

If I have someone dead to rights in training, I hold it and give them time to tap.

If they don't, I apply a bit more pressure, and remind them "this is where you should tap. Especially if you are rolling with someone else who doesn't have as much control. It's at the breaking point and escape isn't an option any more".

If they still don't, I let them go and stop the roll. I'll tell them "if you have no regard for your own person safety, how can I train with you and trust you'll have regard for mine". If they get the point and apologize, we'll resume. If they argue it- I'll just move on and not roll with them again.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

I wouldn't even break something on purpose in a real life attack scenario. I accidentally tore some guys leg with a bad trip in a competition like 8 years ago and I still get waves of guilt.

 

[Kforcer]

I had a guy limping for a bit because he basically stomped my face as I was applying an Achilles. I'd say the jerk I gave was justified. It was basically reflex anyways. Guy was upwards of 300, I was in the 180's. It hurt, my nose was streaming blood and I had to stop rolling for the day. So anyway, when is a break justified...? If a guy tries to stomp your face while you're grappling with him, then I think it's not such a bad thing.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

The author sounds like a dummy.

It's never ok to intentionally injure a training partner. If they repeatedly refuse to tap when they're completely stuck in a sub, explain to them that they're stupid or quit rolling with them.

His concern about "training to let go of submissions" is dumb. You shouldn't be doing a quick catch and release thing unless you're way beyond your opponent and experienced enough that this discussion isn't necessary. You should be getting the sub in tight and holding them there for a few seconds.

 

[Pizza Werewolf]

THIS ISNT THE RELATIONSHIP THREAD!?

 

[Kforcer]

Breaking a training partner should almost never occur, though of course shit does happen sometimes in training any combat art. It should be carefully avoided on all sides to the best of everyone’s ability.

I’ve paused on submissions against whitebelts a bunch of times, if I am applying a slow finish & they are just squirming like a fish, & not 1. intelligently escaping, nor 2. tapping, to tell them they need to learn to do one or the other.

Usually tends to happen in kimuras & americanas, where there is a lot of variance in shoulder flexibility & people don’t know their limits. Although sometimes it happens even in armbars, where it should be obvious to anyone. Some people are just more stubborn and/or lost in the heat of a roll than others. I forgive this in whitebelts — but any rank beyond that having this problem is somewhat shameful. The tap & the bow are the main moves in jiujitsu you are supposed to master at whitebelt.

People should tap, but I do think, unless we're just forced to defend ourselves, it's also on the person applying the submission to know when to stop. I've gassed myself out many times finishing Achilles locks slowly against people desperately trying to spazz out of it or attempting an out-of-position leglock counter and it's annoying, but it beats hurting someone.

Actually, a guy I trained with back in the day loved heel-hooks and was obsessed with the idea that his heel-hooks were better than my Achilles locks or something like that and sometimes would try to prove a point by not tapping when I had an Achilles locked in. I'm sure I could've finished it, but at a certain point, I figure, just let people have their pride and go on with it.

 

[Zanderlini]

Snapping anybodies shit in training is beyond retarded. It should happen 0 times. If they deserve it that much get up and punch em in the mouth.

 

[TheMood]

The author of this "article" is Anonymous White Belt. I hate to be that guy but this thing shouldn't be in print for others to read. This should have been a stupid question he asked his instructor and the instructor should have said never hurt a training partner on purpose. It is really that simple.

His premise you will fight how you train is true. However, that applies more to the general philosophy of how you train. If you always train with cooperating partners and no contact then you will have issues when you meet someone that isn't cooperating. It doesn't mean always treat training like life or death.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

i dont think its a very interesting question. and i think if you dont have this clearly answered in your mind after a month of training, you probably shouldnt be training.

 

[yetanother]

The author of this "article" is Anonymous White Belt. I hate to be that guy but this thing shouldn't be in print for others to read. This should have been a stupid question he asked his instructor and the instructor should have said never hurt a training partner on purpose. It is really that simple.

His premise you will fight how you train is true. However, that applies more to the general philosophy of how you train. If you always train with cooperating partners and no contact then you will have issues when you meet someone that isn't cooperating. It doesn't mean always treat training like life or death.

The argument that you should maim your friends in training so that you will do this on the street is beyond retarded. If you actually believe that you deserve to be hit by a 2×4.

 

[Calibur]

E)Not roll with them.

I wouldn't train with someone who knew what an armbar was but still wouldn't tap to it in training.

I avoid sparring with idiots at all costs.

 

[yetanother]

E)Not roll with them.

I wouldn't train with someone who knew what an armbar was but still wouldn't tap to it in training.

I avoid sparring with idiots at all costs.

When insanely exhausted some guys have crazy ideas once in a blue moon.

 

[Calibur]

When insanely exhausted some guys have crazy ideas once in a blue moon.

Lol. I don’t need that craziness in my life.
Lucky for me most people I know just tap when they’re exhausted.

 

[sb413197]

Breaking a training partner should almost never occur, though of course shit does happen sometimes in training any combat art. It should be carefully avoided on all sides to the best of everyone’s ability.

I’ve paused on submissions against whitebelts a bunch of times, if I am applying a slow finish & they are just squirming like a fish, & not 1. intelligently escaping, nor 2. tapping, to tell them they need to learn to do one or the other.

Usually tends to happen in kimuras & americanas, where there is a lot of variance in shoulder flexibility & people don’t know their limits. Although sometimes it happens even in armbars, where it should be obvious to anyone. Some people are just more stubborn and/or lost in the heat of a roll than others. I forgive this in whitebelts — but any rank beyond that having this problem is somewhat shameful. The tap & the bow are the main moves in jiujitsu you are supposed to master at whitebelt.

I've found it helps to kind of pause at the "first" danger point and say "are you ok?" If they say yes even though they aren't, I progress a bit further veeeery slowly, and if I'm getting really worried and they aren't tapping, I ask a second time. Never had anyone not tap at that point, and training partners usually don't spaz in that situation from my experience - I've actually been thanked for the control, and it kind of takes them out of "fight/spaz" mode to do that too.

If you have good control, which you should in training, there isn't really a need to crank things. If you're relying on cranking things or going 1000%, not only is it unsafe but it will train bad technique and control that won't work if your opponent is going harder than they would in a typical weekday evening training session.

 

[kintana]

I do not think in a training room there is good reason to break a limb if you are in control. Sometimes accidents happen but if the guy does not want to tap well move on to another submission. You caught him and nothing more humiliating than letting someone go when you know you had them and they know you had them.

I do think you should train the way you fight but that does not mean if you ever hit a real fight for your life and the guy taps you will let go. You will probably hold on or go for the break.

 

[dmwalking]

THIS ISNT THE RELATIONSHIP THREAD!?

lmao great post

 

[mataleaos]

This is a crazy article. And I don't even think it's interesting.

It's never cool to intentionally break a training partner's limb. It's never justified.

 

[shunyata]

https://www.bjjreport.com/post/armb..._h3lfzhm5wFdZpQagSKcpKJ6Xnp9ORtIHGrCteWA1w_g8

Interesting article.

i say let go in the gym. You need your training partners healthy. Higher ranks should tell lower belts “hey be careful with holding out for subs. Your competition won’t be as kind as a training partner.” But the gym is practice. No need to injure each other. It’s counter productive.

In competition, break it. You both know the risks of competition.

in the street, one on one fair fight, (think road rage altercation) transition to a better control position. Breaking a limb can be considered excessive force if the legal system gets involved. And you open yourself up to civil suits as well. It’s not worth it. Better to just control them until they either calm down or until law enforcement shows up. Who’s gonna look like the bad guy? The one in full control calmly trying to deescalate the situation? Or the one being controlled behaving belligerently? You don’t need to prove anything in a street fight. You just wanna control the situation and stay out of jail.

In a legit self defense situation, break it. I mean, when it’s life or death, go for everything. Bite. Eye gouge. Ear tear. Groin strikes. Go full Krav Maga. Lol.

and on a side note, chokes are better than joint locks.

You're dead wrong on that last line in terms of self defense and chokes and the law.

If you're worried about legal repercussions, you're much better off dislocating or hyperextending an elbow/shoulder than you are using a choke hold in a non sporting situation.


Holding the choke, because there's no ref, you didn't know he was out, his companions are threatening to shoot you and you're using him as a shield (that was a real life road rage case a couple years back) is much more likely to literally kill the person.

Say you choke them out but then let go instantly when the go out, they wake back up belligerent as ever. Unless you're letting go instantly, laying their head gently on the ground, then running like hell, a choke is far more likely to go horribly wrong.