When will bjj stop evolving?

[Sweeptheleg7]

Bjj as a sport is still pretty young and it has evolved as a result of different rule sets and because of implementing other grappling arts such as catch, sambo, judo, etc. Danaher is credited with the evolution of the leg lock game and also some of his other systems such as his back attack systems.

If there are no other rule changes, do you see bjj still evolving? I’m not familiar with wrestling but I would think there hasn’t been much evolution for a while because the rule set has stayed the same.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I don't think that there's a lot more spectacular evolution to come. It will be a lot of little revolutions that adds up and makes other things way better.

Danaher is credited with the leglock system but a lot of people made it better over time. The backside 50-50 attacks from Lachlan Giles was just as innovative and efficient but it looked less spectacular than when the DDS came with it.

Like the Danaher systems especially back attacks and leglocks was spectacular. Just like De La Riva, Deep half, Spider guard, D'arce Chokes, berimbolo, Lapel stuff... were something big and new at one time.



Maybe some other big things will happen someday but a lot of the better guys are on efficiency and linking techniques a lot more than they are on new techniques .

I know that Danaher is pretty big on scrimaging ( transitions from takedowns to dominant positions on the ground). The best guys games are pretty simple, based on a couple of techniques but always faster and slicker.

It's start to look like a big Pokemon card game. It's not who as the funkiest new trick up his sleeve, it's more about who built the best game and who does it the more efficiently

 

[shunyata]

I'd agree with Nick, I think we're approaching the area where at the highest levels it will be effectively a "solved game".

There may be different styles or competitive meta games over the years if rules change or a competitor finds sucess with something, but as more and more elite competitors crack the game we will see athleticism, speed, power, and youth mean more and more.

It's already started happening.

 

[TheMaster]

Bjj as a sport is still pretty young and it has evolved as a result of different rule sets and because of implementing other grappling arts such as catch, sambo, judo, etc. Danaher is credited with the evolution of the leg lock game and also some of his other systems such as his back attack systems.

If there are no other rule changes, do you see bjj still evolving? I’m not familiar with wrestling but I would think there hasn’t been much evolution for a while because the rule set has stayed the same.

LMAO 'evolving'<45>

You can't steal aikido wrist locks, sambo and catch leg and ankle locks, freestyle wrestling takedowns and still call it "its all evolved BJJ y'all".

It's not BJJ anymore.

Real, authentic BJJ is now GJJ only.

Whatever the fuck this mixed up grappling style is now it's not 'BJJ'.
It's hybrid submission grappling.

And I'm not saying it's not effective.
But tell it like it is.

 

[Quebec Nick]

LMAO 'evolving'<45>

You can't steal aikido wrist locks, sambo and catch leg and ankle locks, freestyle wrestling takedowns and still call it "its all evolved BJJ y'all".

It's not BJJ anymore.

Real, authentic BJJ is now GJJ only.

Whatever the fuck this mixed up grappling style is now it's not 'BJJ'.
It's hybrid submission grappling.

And I'm not saying it's not effective.
But tell it like it is.

I wouldn't train in any authentic pure martial art, sounds boring and lame.

Don't do that it is not the way

If it's doable in the ruleset then we can do it

And for the record, techniques aren't own by a discipline, the twerks and the way to set them up are what define a style

There's front kicks in Karate, Tae kwon do, Muy Thai... and everybody does them their way

 

[EGDM]

Real, authentic BJJ is now GJJ only.

Lol no.

 

[The Apostle]

I don’t know what I envision for the future of bjj so I don’t know if you could call it evolution but we’ve seen radical changes in the last 10-20 years. From Terere’s game to Marcelo’s and Roger’s, Keenan, DDS… Anyone else remember feeling this way - HE INVERTS!!! Or this guy uses De La Riva!!! Maybe the game will swing back Roger’s way and be solely about the basics. Is that evolution, regression, neither?

 

[Coconutwater]

I actually think the standup stuff is still lagging, even with more BJJ guys studying judo and wrestling, it hasn’t peaked yet. When guys master every single throw, sweep, and takedown so they flow from one to the other, then it will move to something else, but for now, the stand-up grappling is still the Wild Wild West, though greatly improved from say... Mundials 1997.

 

[Smato_rules]

I feel like Gordon’s game is going more basic every time I see a new instructional. His new thing is half guard passing, which is very old school. I’m not sure where it goes from here but I think Gordon and John tend to lead the charge in what is the next big thing.

On another note, I have been watching the early adccs and see a ton of bodylock passing. I just think it’s kind of neat how it’s now the new big thing in 2022

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Every single sport is evolving. Including wrestling. If you look at wrestling from the 2000’s to now you will see a huge difference. Same with basketball and boxing and every sport

 

[Chandler sama]

I don't think it will ever stop evolving. BJJ and grappling is a complex dynamic system and as such there is no "solution". Over time atheles have gotten better and better in BJJ, but I don't think that is actually what is driving the evolution. The biggest changes are coming from the amount of knowledge these young athletes have.

The Ruotolos are great athletes and have been winning almost everything, but IMO their success is more based on knowledge and creativity than just athleticism. This is even more apparent with someone like Mikey Mucumeci. His success is based on how he improved techniques and used new strategies not physical attributes.

Evolution is always occurring, but sometimes you don't notice it because it is hard to see. I was watching ADCC 2009 the other day and collecting stats. I noticed that there were a lot of leglock attempts, but few finishes. I saw positions like outside ashi, 50/50, the saddle, etc, but people couldn't finish their opponents from there. The leg lock revolution wasn't about new moves, it was about the strategies to get to these positions, how to maintain these positions and how to finish these submissions. I think the impact made it seem like a greater leap than it actually was.

If anything the evolution hasn't even slowed down and might have even increased in speed. I don't think it will ever slow down because BJJ itself, due to its complexity, isn't a sport that can be solved. It will keep changing and evolving based on trends and competitors.

 

[TheMaster]

I wouldn't train in any authentic pure martial art, sounds boring and lame.

Don't do that it is not the way

If it's doable in the ruleset then we can do it

And for the record, techniques aren't own by a discipline, the twerks and the way to set them up are what define a style

There's front kicks in Karate, Tae kwon do, Muy Thai... and everybody does them their way

There's nothing boring about it, it's simply knowing and preserving the authentic system that got it to where it is.

That's why there's so much confusion and misguided threads like this.

"Will BJJ ever stop evolving?"

Well if your going to just become a format for various submission grappling rulesets and incorporate increasing numbers of styles, training methods and techniques then obviously it will keep developing, just don't call it 'BJJ' and try to use some kind of standardized belt grading system when no-one knows what it actually is now, no one's crediting it's various origins are or where it's going.

We already have this debate in if 'nogi BJJ blackbelts' (i.e rebranded Luta Livre/Catch/ BJJ) can wear black belts in the GI.

You can't have it both ways. You preserve and authentic style and how it's done and you refine it.
Roger Gracie is the purest of BJJ in it's true form.

You deviate from that then you are doing hybrid submission grappling. Just dont try to call it straight BJJ or claim a lineage solely from the Gracie's.

 

[Sweeptheleg7]

LMAO 'evolving'<45>

You can't steal aikido wrist locks, sambo and catch leg and ankle locks, freestyle wrestling takedowns and still call it "its all evolved BJJ y'all".

It's not BJJ anymore.

Real, authentic BJJ is now GJJ only.

Whatever the fuck this mixed up grappling style is now it's not 'BJJ'.
It's hybrid submission grappling.

And I'm not saying it's not effective.
But tell it like it is.

When I’m talking about bjj, I’m talking about bjj schools. They are adding these things into their curriculum. Some even add 10th planet stuff as well. Some are still old school places that are more gjj like and don’t really incorporate these things but they’re normally schools that don’t compete.

 

[shunyata]

When I’m talking about bjj, I’m talking about bjj schools. They are adding these things into their curriculum. Some even add 10th planet stuff as well. Some are still old school places that are more gjj like and don’t really incorporate these things but they’re normally schools that don’t compete.

Even the idea that "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" is some monolith is absurd.

There's a few Gracies.

Gordon and Meregali are both working with a Renzo Gracie black belt named Jon right now, so there's still "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" being repped at ADCC if we want to get technical about it.

 

[Sweeptheleg7]

Even the idea that "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" is some monolith is absurd.

There's a few Gracies.

Gordon and Meregali are both working with a Renzo Gracie black belt named Jon right now, so there's still "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" being repped at ADCC if we want to get technical about it.

Well, I meant it more for Rorion side of the family because they advertise it more and are more geared towards hobbyist that don’t compete. Guys like Kron don’t even mention Gjj and Judy’s calls it jiujitsu

There is also the issue of if you’re a remap Gracie bb and go train at Torrance, you couldn’t wear your belt and had to start at white. Maybe they changed it but I remember Reno’s being pissed about that.

 

[kintana]

I will take the opposite viewpoint of most posts and say BJJ will never stop evolving.

Think of basketball now, it is a long range shooter’s game. Before it was a centers game or a mid range shooters game.

BJJ will continue to evolve as athletes and rules evolve.

 

[Matsukaze]

Don't forget to add that Gordan and DDS guys train 7 days a week. Gordan has said it many times that most top level BB are lazy ( his words ) and don't put the work in. If you train anything 7 days a week plus strength and conditioning you will be good.
He mentions that he doesn't travel and do seminars because it gets in the way of his training.

 

[Ishaq]

Don't forget to add that Gordan and DDS guys train 7 days a week. Gordan has said it many times that most top level BB are lazy ( his words ) and don't put the work in. If you train anything 7 days a week plus strength and conditioning you will be good.
He mentions that he doesn't travel and do seminars because it gets in the way of his training.

How do you not get sick and burn out? It must be Paolo Costas secret juice.

 

[shunyata]

Well, I meant it more for Rorion side of the family because they advertise it more and are more geared towards hobbyist that don’t compete. Guys like Kron don’t even mention Gjj and Judy’s calls it jiujitsu

There is also the issue of if you’re a remap Gracie bb and go train at Torrance, you couldn’t wear your belt and had to start at white. Maybe they changed it but I remember Reno’s being pissed about that.

That sounds insane, but what do you mean by "remap"?

 

[Matsukaze]

How do you not get sick and burn out? It must be Paolo Costas secret juice.

No kidding.. three times a week can get brutal at times for me