Where do you place prime Hari amongst greats based on skill level?

[Mike Schiavello]

Badr in his heyday was a rare combination of very good technique thrown with all out power intent on hurting opponents with every strike. If you watch some of his more technical performances, against Samedov 1st time, against Iggy, as just two examples, you can see him being more cerebral in picking his shots wisely. Then look against Karaev or Feitosa or anyone in 2008 GP and he was all out power and length.

 

[BoxerMaurits]

If you watch some of his more technical performances, against Samedov 1st time, against Iggy, as just two examples, you can see him being more cerebral in picking his shots wisely.

Did the Badr of the first Arek Wrzosek fight remind you of that calm and calculated Badr of the fights you mentioned Michael?

 

[Blazeblack]

Badr in his heyday was a rare combination of very good technique thrown with all out power intent on hurting opponents with every strike. If you watch some of his more technical performances, against Samedov 1st time, against Iggy, as just two examples, you can see him being more cerebral in picking his shots wisely. Then look against Karaev or Feitosa or anyone in 2008 GP and he was all out power and length.

I feel that a lot of fans remember Badr's more recklessly aggressive showings and have a tendency to forget how effective of a counter fighter he was. Had Badr only been a reckless brawler, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere with that chin.

 

[Hagelslag2]

Honestly, I don't rate him that high. He had all the physical attributes, the best trainers, and a generous helping of pharmaceutical enhancement and he just wasn't able to perform. Being able to perform to the highest level under immense pressure is a skill. If you can't and others can, you are less skillful than them. If you basically fold under pressure almost every time it really matters, you're just not part of the upper echelon of athletes. In the end, your value as an athlete, especially in individual sports, is measured by how many prizes you win, and if you fail to win them, you fail the primary measurement of greatness.

 

[Blazeblack]

Honestly, I don't rate him that high. He had all the physical attributes, the best trainers, and a generous helping of pharmaceutical enhancement and he just wasn't able to perform. Being able to perform to the highest level under immense pressure is a skill. If you can't and others can, you are less skillful than them. If you basically fold under pressure almost every time it really matters, you're just not part of the upper echelon of athletes. In the end, your value as an athlete, especially in individual sports, is measured by how many prizes you win, and if you fail to win them, you fail the primary measurement of greatness.

I don't disagree with the spirit of your argument, greatness in a sport should be reflective of the athlete's success and quality of performance. However I don't think it's fair to suggest that Badr didn't perform at the highest level. Sure he failed to win the crown jewl of kickboxing, but the achievements he won were not that far off.

What should trump any title or tournaments won should be the quality of the fighter's record. Did they fight elite competition and were they successful? Badr fought and beat the majority of the top fighters in his time, and even has a win over the consensus #1 heavyweight of the time. A time that was on par with the 90's k-1 golden era.

I get why there is a tendency to be critical of Badr, the guy is controversy made manifest. He undoubtedly had the potential to due more, and his behavior has often been a black eye for sport. That doesn't have any bering on what he did in the sport. He would have been dangerous for any heavyweight great, in a theoretical head to head/ prime for prime match up.

 

[Tayski]

Badr in his heyday was a rare combination of very good technique thrown with all out power intent on hurting opponents with every strike. If you watch some of his more technical performances, against Samedov 1st time, against Iggy, as just two examples, you can see him being more cerebral in picking his shots wisely. Then look against Karaev or Feitosa or anyone in 2008 GP and he was all out power and length.

Well the Badr you describe in his heydey was coached by Thom Harink, and I think things shifted towards more just pure aggression when shifting to Mike's gym.