Economy White House warns of economic collapse if debt isn't fixed.

[James Bomb]

You didn’t actually read what you posted The actual amount of tax revenue collected in FY2018 was significantly lower than the CBO’s projection made in January 2017—before the tax cut was signed into law.

That’s the point. The TCJA reduced income to below what the CBO projections were before it was enacted. That’s how you measure things.

It’s comparing projections not the actual revenues collected.

CBO reports and budget projections are the basis for budget decisions made by Congress.

You’re using a site that is spinning its wheels like my cousin Vinny. Almost every single factoid they have up is set up dishonestly.
They used a decline in revenue when using 2018 dollars and other silly metrics. Sorry but use a better source than that please

Lol, didn’t you just post a link from the GOP Ways and Means?

Anyways, here’s an OECD report:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ped-sharply-due-to-trump-tax-cuts-report.html

NPR, based off Tax Policy Center:


and another analysis:
https://www.thebalance.com/cost-of-trump-tax-cuts-4586645

 

[Jack V Savage]

Haven't people been saying this for years? Why are they only now acknowledging it??

Debt itself is not at concerning levels. The threat is that Republicans will deliberately crash the economy by not raising the debt ceiling. This "issue" went away for a while because Democrats weren't trying to hurt the economy just because they didn't have the WH.

 

[WhiteMousse]

Debt itself is not at concerning levels. The threat is that Republicans will deliberately crash the economy by not raising the debt ceiling. This "issue" went away for a while because Democrats weren't trying to hurt the economy just because they didn't have the WH.

What is the Republican's stated reason for preventing that? Is it a general "we can't do this anymore" kind of thing? Is there some sort of big budget item they don't want the Democrats to push through, or are they just generally dragging their heels?

 

[Jack V Savage]

What is the Republican's stated reason for preventing that? Is it a general "we can't do this anymore" kind of thing? Is there some sort of big budget item they don't want the Democrats to push through, or are they just generally dragging their heels?

McConnell said that the debt ceiling has to be raised but that Democrats should be the ones to do it. "Let me make it perfectly clear. The country must never default. The debt ceiling will need to be raised. But who does that depends on who the American people elect." But Democrats don't have the votes to overcome a filibuster. So there's no real "stated reason" for Republicans blocking an outcome they know is necessary. The unstated reason is the belief that the public blames the president when something goes wrong + a lack of concern about hurting Americans as long as they see it as being in their political interests.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Politicians (who work for the bankers, not the people) want to increase the debt limit so they can put the country into further debt. The reason for this is because those banking families (Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans etc) who own the Federal Reserve, profit from the debt. 3 American presidents were assassinated after trying to reduce the power of these bankers over the state. See my signature for more info

The debt ceiling has no impact on the size of the debt, other than costs that defaulting adds.

 

[James Bomb]

The debt ceiling has no impact on the size of the debt, other than costs that defaulting adds.

Yep, there is no practical reason why Congress needs to vote to raise the debt ceiling in the first place.

Since it’s all spending that Congress already pre-authorized, folks who have issues should just vote against appropriations that they don’t support before the checks are actually written. Having an extra ceremonial layer of bullshit just raises overall costs and makes borrowing that is already mandatory more expensive in the long run.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

I stopped listening to you guys months ago when you told me that inflation wasn't a concern.

 

[My Spot]

Debt itself is not at concerning levels. The threat is that Republicans will deliberately crash the economy by not raising the debt ceiling. This "issue" went away for a while because Democrats weren't trying to hurt the economy just because they didn't have the WH.

Someone has an obviously short memory.

 

[ElKarlo]

That’s the point. The TCJA reduced income to below what the CBO projections were before it was enacted. That’s how you measure things.

CBO reports and budget projections are the basis for budget decisions made by Congress.



Lol, didn’t you just post a link from the GOP Ways and Means?

Anyways, here’s an OECD report:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ped-sharply-due-to-trump-tax-cuts-report.html

NPR, based off Tax Policy Center:


and another analysis:
https://www.thebalance.com/cost-of-trump-tax-cuts-4586645

Reducing income that was predicated is not an actual net reduction in income.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/

Tax revenues up overall by .5

 

[James Bomb]

I stopped listening to you guys months ago when you told me that inflation wasn't a concern.

Posting things like this is a good sign that economics is way too complicated for you and you should stick to Paw Patrol instead

 

[James Bomb]

Reducing income that was predicated is not an actual net reduction in income.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/

Tax revenues up overall by .5

Dude, it’s like a basic principle of testing that you need to isolate independent variables.

CBO projections are what Congress uses to create budgets.

it’s not that controversial that the TCJA reduced tax revenues


On the whole, the growth effects tend to show a relatively small (if any) first-year effect on the economy. Although examining the growth rates cannot indicate the effects of the tax cut on GDP, it does tend to rule out very large effects in the near term.
The data appear to indicate that not enough growth occurred in the first year to cause the tax cut to pay for itself. Assuming a tax rate of 18% (based on CBO estimates), and estimating the tax cut to reduce revenue in calendar year 2018 by about 1.2% of GDP, a 6.7% GDP increase due to the tax cuts alone would be required.16 Rather, the combination of projections and observed effects for 2018 suggests a feedback effect of 0.3% of GDP or less—5% or less of the growth needed to fully offset the revenue loss from the Act.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45736.pdf

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

If we don’t spend 3.5 trillion that we don’t actually have, the debt is gonna cause a collapse. Makes perfect sense.

 

[BlacknBlue]

McConnell said that the debt ceiling has to be raised but that Democrats should be the ones to do it. "Let me make it perfectly clear. The country must never default. The debt ceiling will need to be raised. But who does that depends on who the American people elect." But Democrats don't have the votes to overcome a filibuster. So there's no real "stated reason" for Republicans blocking an outcome they know is necessary. The unstated reason is the belief that the public blames the president when something goes wrong + a lack of concern about hurting Americans as long as they see it as being in their political interests.

Democrats don't need to overcome any filibuster and they have all the votes they need to raise the debt limit. They can simply tie it into the $3.5 Trillion dollar bill their are forcing through despite zero Republican support. If Democrats were so concerned about the coming "Economic Devastation" it would already be in the bill. This is just empty political theatre that only seeks to rile up the rubes.

If they want Republican support for the bill, a crazy person might suggest negotiating with Republicans to get Republican support for the bill instead of going it alone and ramming it through.

 

[James Bomb]

If we don’t spend 3.5 trillion that we don’t actually have, the debt is gonna cause a collapse. Makes perfect sense.

It’s necessary to fund existing obligations, not new spending bills

“The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.”

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-is...al-institutions-and-fiscal-service/debt-limit

 

[James Bomb]

Democrats don't need to overcome any filibuster and they have all the votes they need to raise the debt limit. They can simply tie it into the $3.5 Trillion dollar bill their are forcing through despite zero Republican support. If Democrats were so concerned about the coming "Economic Devastation" it would already be in the bill. This is just empty political theatre that only seeks to rile up the rubes.

If they want Republican support for the bill, a crazy person might suggest negotiating with Republicans to get Republican support for the bill instead of going it alone and ramming it through.

If Republicans didn’t want to raise the debt ceiling, they shouldn’t have voted for bills that increased the debt load in the first place.

Playing brinkmanship games with a potential default is the dumbest sort of politicking.

 

[thehighking]

The debt ceiling has no impact on the size of the debt, other than costs that defaulting adds.

The debt ceiling is a limit on how much the treasury can borrow. Borrowing more increases the size of the debt so of course a higher ceiling has an impact on the size of the country's debt, it makes more debt possible. Reckless spending (I believe on purpose) however means it's most likely necessary to increase the debt ceiling.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Posting things like this is a good sign that economics is way too complicated for you and you should stick to Paw Patrol instead

lol yeah I'm sure you still believe there's no inflation happening.

 

[ElKarlo]

Dude, it’s like a basic principle of testing that you need to isolate independent variables.

CBO projections are what Congress uses to create budgets.

it’s not that controversial that the TCJA reduced tax revenues


On the whole, the growth effects tend to show a relatively small (if any) first-year effect on the economy. Although examining the growth rates cannot indicate the effects of the tax cut on GDP, it does tend to rule out very large effects in the near term.
The data appear to indicate that not enough growth occurred in the first year to cause the tax cut to pay for itself. Assuming a tax rate of 18% (based on CBO estimates), and estimating the tax cut to reduce revenue in calendar year 2018 by about 1.2% of GDP, a 6.7% GDP increase due to the tax cuts alone would be required.16 Rather, the combination of projections and observed effects for 2018 suggests a feedback effect of 0.3% of GDP or less—5% or less of the growth needed to fully offset the revenue loss from the Act.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45736.pdf

It did not decrease tax revenue. It was actually up. It wasn't as high as predicted. The language being used is not showing the actual reality of a increase, just not as much as was projected,

 

[Jack V Savage]

The debt ceiling is a limit on how much the treasury can borrow. Borrowing more increases the size of the debt so of course a higher ceiling has an impact on the size of the country's debt, it makes more debt possible. Reckless spending (I believe on purpose) however means it's most likely necessary to increase the debt ceiling.

No, spending is set by Congress, and revenue is a function of laws and the economy. The debt ceiling has nothing to do with the size of the annual deficit or debt obligations. It's just about paying for spending that is already legally mandated.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Democrats don't need to overcome any filibuster and they have all the votes they need to raise the debt limit.

They do.

If they want Republican support for the bill, a crazy person might suggest negotiating with Republicans to get Republican support for the bill instead of going it alone and ramming it through.

Both parties agree the debt ceiling should be raised and that it would be harmful to the country not to raise it. What's the negotiation? Republicans aren't even asking for anything. They just are willing to hurt Americans to make their opponents look bad to morons.