Economy White House warns of economic collapse if debt isn't fixed.

Jack V Savage said:
They do.



Both parties agree the debt ceiling should be raised and that it would be harmful to the country not to raise it. What's the negotiation? Republicans aren't even asking for anything. They just are willing to hurt Americans to make their opponents look bad to morons.
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The fact you even need to explain this says it all.


“We know there is a huge problem but we won’t do anything to fix it”- republicans
 
Jack V Savage said:
No, spending is set by Congress, and revenue is a function of laws and the economy. The debt ceiling has nothing to do with the size of the annual deficit or debt obligations. It's just about paying for spending that is already legally mandated.
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Yes, paying for the spending by borrowing more money. That money isn't free, the loan comes with interest, increasing the national debt.
 
thehighking said:
Yes, paying for the spending by borrowing more money. That money isn't free, the loan comes with interest, increasing the national debt.
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Just in the sense that all spending "increases the national debt." Total interest isn't even much and new interest is irrelevant. All irrelevant to the point. The debt ceiling is just kind of a mistake in the system that is a formality except if a party deliberately wants to crash the world economy.
 
James Bomb said:
If Republicans didn’t want to raise the debt ceiling, they shouldn’t have voted for bills that increased the debt load in the first place.

Playing brinkmanship games with a potential default is the dumbest sort of politicking.
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That is pretty much the point of this Democrat "Brinksmanship" right? If they can railroad them here, the next line will be, "If Republicans didn't want massive new spending on reconciliations bill that have zero Republicans support, why'd they vote to raise the debt limit?". Debt and Inflation are on voters minds more and more. Republicans have no obligation to give Democrats political cover for their $3.5 Trillion bill that they didn't even bother trying to negotiation with Republicans on. If they think the massive new spending is best for the country, why not own it completely instead of feigning a crisis?

Again, Democrats have the votes. They don't need any Republicans. If they truly think we are on the brink of an economic calamity, they could already have put the matter to rest. That alone should tell you what this is about.
 
Jack V Savage said:
They do.



Both parties agree the debt ceiling should be raised and that it would be harmful to the country not to raise it. What's the negotiation? Republicans aren't even asking for anything. They just are willing to hurt Americans to make their opponents look bad to morons.
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You don't think there should be a negotiation with Republicans before ramming through a $3.5 Trillion bill? You don't think they have an opinion on the expansion of the government Democrats are unilaterally attempting to push through? I have no doubt Democrats could find 10 Republican votes for raising the debt ceiling in exchange for a pared down reconciliation bill. Why didn't they just try that?

And as we agreed, Democrats have the votes. They can raise the debt limit whenever they choose, and no Americans will be "harmed". Instead they come out with feigned concern about defaults and economic calamity (with the other party responsible of course). Why not just own completely this federal expansion, and let the Republicans suffer the fallout of not supporting such popular measures? Democrats know inflation and debt are on the public's mind (more so than Covid in a lot of states), and they want to hedge their bets on making sure Republicans can share in the blame. I don't see why McConnell should feel compelled to accommodate that.
 
BlacknBlue said:
You don't think there should be a negotiation with Republicans before ramming through a $3.5 Trillion bill? You don't think they have an opinion on the expansion of the government Democrats are unilaterally attempting to push through? I have no doubt Democrats could find 10 Republican votes for raising the debt ceiling in exchange for a pared down reconciliation bill. Why didn't they just try that?
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Republicans aren't asking for anything. They've made it clear that they agree that raising the ceiling is good and necessary but they are also saying they will prevent it. Also, generally, we've all learned that the kind of "negotiation" involved in "we'll hurt a third party (in this case, regular Americans) in exchange for concessions" are not advisable, as they lead to moral hazard.

And as we agreed, Democrats have the votes.
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We agree that they don't have the votes. That's the whole issue here.
 
BlacknBlue said:
That is pretty much the point of this Democrat "Brinksmanship" right? If they can railroad them here, the next line will be, "If Republicans didn't want massive new spending on reconciliations bill that have zero Republicans support, why'd they vote to raise the debt limit?". Debt and Inflation are on voters minds more and more. Republicans have no obligation to give Democrats political cover for their $3.5 Trillion bill that they didn't even bother trying to negotiation with Republicans on. If they think the massive new spending is best for the country, why not own it completely instead of feigning a crisis?

Again, Democrats have the votes. They don't need any Republicans. If they truly think we are on the brink of an economic calamity, they could already have put the matter to rest. That alone should tell you what this is about.
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As I’ve pointed out several times, the debt ceiling needs to be adjusted to pay for spending that is already authorized. This sort of debt ceiling games didn’t start until 2011, and it only made things worse as far as the country’s financial health goes.
 
ElKarlo said:
It did not decrease tax revenue. It was actually up. It wasn't as high as predicted. The language being used is not showing the actual reality of a increase, just not as much as was projected,
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I think you’re kind of close to getting the concept, but not quite there yet.

The economy grew in 2018, but the TCJA wasn’t the cause, since it was only applicable to 2018 taxes (after the fact). Even with this windfall, it was obvious that it reduced tax revenue. 2019 and 2020 even more so.
 
James Bomb said:
I think you’re kind of close to getting the concept, but not quite there yet.

The economy grew in 2018, but the TCJA wasn’t the cause, since it was only applicable to 2018 taxes (after the fact). Even with this windfall, it was obvious that it reduced tax revenue. 2019 and 2020 even more so.
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No. You’re clearly unable to state something factually. You said tax revenues decrease. They didn’t. They rose by half a percent. Which was lower than projected. Until you can say that honestly, you’re just going to dance around it and use technicalities to pretend you’re right
 
ElKarlo said:
No. You’re clearly unable to state something factually. You said tax revenues decrease. They didn’t. They rose by half a percent. Which was lower than projected. Until you can say that honestly, you’re just going to dance around it and use technicalities to pretend you’re right
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Lol, you guys are just too precious. You’re actually claiming that somebody else is “dancing around it and using technicalities” when your entire argument is “the number was .1% higher”.

The TCJA led to less tax money being collected than if it wasn’t in place. I guess we can add budget projections to the long list of things you guys are irrationally scared of.
 
I recommend everyone check out this documentary to see how we got here....Ive been reading a lot about the 08 financial collapse and how weve done basically nothing to fix the issue. We keep pouring money out of our ass we dont have. This is why I laugh at everyone here who gets caught up in dem vs republican cause its exactly what they want while the real problem goes undiscussed. The 8 pages here vs four hundred fifty something pages of covid show exactly why its working too.
 
The title here is also misleading. They arent trying to fix the debt, they are trying to expand the debt ceiling so we dont default on our current debts and cause a financial collapse if anyone wants to cash out on said debt owed.
 
James Bomb said:
Lol, you guys are just too precious. You’re actually claiming that somebody else is “dancing around it and using technicalities” when your entire argument is “the number was .1% higher”.

The TCJA led to less tax money being collected than if it wasn’t in place. I guess we can add budget projections to the long list of things you guys are irrationally scared of.
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Seriously? So you lying and said there was a decline, is ok? No it is patently false. You can’t factually say that. But yes keep pretending they even a small increase is somehow a decrease.
 
spamking said:
The way administration after administration spends money is mind boggling . . .
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Yep. Massive audits are needed and we need to clear out a lot of pork. It’s probably mostly pork at this point in all honesty
 
chrisdiaz said:
I recommend everyone check out this documentary to see how we got here....Ive been reading a lot about the 08 financial collapse and how weve done basically nothing to fix the issue. We keep pouring money out of our ass we dont have. This is why I laugh at everyone here who gets caught up in dem vs republican cause its exactly what they want while the real problem goes undiscussed. The 8 pages here vs four hundred fifty something pages of covid show exactly why its working too.
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That video is t available. Any other links?

I have been reading up on the GFC since the 2018 or so. Amazing how are modes they were and how basically after the feds cleaned up the mess, they went right back to it with little changed imho
 
ElKarlo said:
Yep. Massive audits are needed and we need to clear out a lot of pork. It’s probably mostly pork at this point in all honesty
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Yep. That's why we have continuing resolutions every year to fund the government. Folks can't just pass a simple annual budget and then work out the other project details and costs later.
 
spamking said:
Yep. That's why we have continuing resolutions every year to fund the government. Folks can't just pass a simple annual budget and then work out the other project details and costs later.
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I also blame messy bills

they should pass each project or department separately. It ends up being 4000 pages of nonsense and fluff while what was actually necessary is a small portion of the bill
 
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