Why America cant win International wrestling

[Liquid Smoke]

the best athletes dont wrestle in the USA...you are 100% correct

I don't buy this argument. If the best athletes play football and basketball how come America dominates in skiing and track and [pick almost any other Olympic sport]? Fact is this is a huge country and we invest an enormous amount of money on sports. I don't have the answer, but I don't believe American comes up short in wrestling because other sports are siphoning off their talent.

 

[-guerilla-]

I don't buy this argument. If the best athletes play football and basketball how come America dominates in skiing and track and [pick almost any other Olympic sport]? Fact is this is a huge country and we invest an enormous amount of money on sports. I don't have the answer, but I don't believe American comes up short in wrestling because other sports are siphoning off their talent.

You may have a point but if you upset some people you will be banned from sherdog...be careful

I would refrain from any debate that may upset certain people

Even tho American athletes dominate lots of "amateur" sports many believe wrestling is different and they are EXTREEMLY sensitive to it and sherdog supports their sensitivity

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Even tho American athletes dominate lots of "amateur" sports many believe wrestling is different and they are EXTREEMLY sensitive to it and sherdog supports their sensitivity

To all the snowflakes out there that I may have offended, I am sorry. Truly and deeply sorry.

 

[-guerilla-]

Please refrain from tin foil hat claims

I didn’t ask about wrestling. I asked about Olympic sports. Do the best US athletes pick and talk about Olympic sports or do they pick and talk about Olympic sports?

I will do my best but remeber you are debating an old southern redneck who is a canned beer alcoholic who beats their wife and abuses their students PLUS says things about women and Islamic people on other forums

Only your mercy has allowed me to remain unbanned from sherdog

I wasent so lucky on the USA wrestling forum as you pointed out....

I thought that Olympic athletes were the greatest in the world and Did It For the Love of sport but now I see your point in that they are all just out for money and only amateur scrubs go for Olympic sports whereas the best and the brightest Go into pro football and basketball

No wonder we cant win International wrestling!!!

And here i was blaming folkstyle

Shame our family wasent murdered in south Africa....

 

[-guerilla-]

To all the snowflakes out there that I may have offended, I am sorry. Truly and deeply sorry.

Good call bro

You wont wind up with the yellow card of shame as i have

Learn from my mistakes

They can say its a shame your family wasent murdered and its ok

They can slam your
Age
Race
Gender
Culture
Geographic location
And slander you with false claims of religious and gender bigotry

However if you post a pic of them and crack a joke sherdog mods wont stand for that!!

 

[jack36767]

I don't buy this argument. If the best athletes play football and basketball how come America dominates in skiing and track and [pick almost any other Olympic sport]? Fact is this is a huge country and we invest an enormous amount of money on sports. I don't have the answer, but I don't believe American comes up short in wrestling because other sports are siphoning off their talent.

The best athletes still sometimes pick track. Track is a very ruthless sport when it comes to flat out having the ability or not.

Skiing is a mostly niche sport.

I’m talking from high school age through college. Where a country puts its best athletes is where they do well.

Most countries. The average kid isn’t talking about winning or playing an Olympic sport. They talk about and want to play soccer, American Football, basketball, and and baseball.

The most and the best athletes tend to go into these sports in the majority of the world.

In Certain federal republics of Russia. All of their best athletes wrestle.

 

[jack36767]

I will do my best but remeber you are debating an old southern redneck who is a canned beer alcoholic who beats their wife and abuses their students PLUS says things about women and Islamic people on other forums

Only your mercy has allowed me to remain unbanned from sherdog

I wasent so lucky on the USA wrestling forum as you pointed out....

I thought that Olympic athletes were the greatest in the world and Did It For the Love of sport but now I see your point in that they are all just out for money and only amateur scrubs go for Olympic sports whereas the best and the brightest Go into pro football and basketball

No wonder we cant win International wrestling!!!

And here i was blaming folkstyle

Shame our family wasent murdered in south Africa....

I never said you beat your wife.

You stated that you “that you make any kid on your team that “pisses you off” wrestle with you for 3 minutes so you can show them their place”.. You also said to the person you responded to something like “Don’t make me do that to you if you keep making me mad”. Personally I don’t know a single good coach that brags about that. To each their own I guess.

Wow. Way to yet again twist my words. I asked a simple question. Does the average kid talk about and play the pro sports. Or Olympic?

You are delving into almost incoherent emotional tin foil hat rants rather than talking about wrestling

 

[-guerilla-]

I never said you beat your wife.

You stated that you “that you make any kid on your team that “pisses you off” wrestle with you for 3 minutes so you can show them their place”.. You also said to the person you responded to something like “Don’t make me do that to you if you keep making me mad”. Personally I don’t know a single good coach that brags about that. To each their own I guess.

Wow. Way to yet again twist my words. I asked a simple question. Does the average kid talk about and play the pro sports. Or Olympic?

You are delving into almost incoherent emotional tin foil hat rants rather than talking about wrestling

I apologize for your confusion...I thought you said I got drunk on canned beer and since i was an old stupid fat redneck that dont know nuthing about wrasslin i beat my wife in frustration

I had my wrestlers go 3 min with me to show them what full speed competition was like with an aggressive opponent, i should have been more clear about that...i see now why you thought i was abusing them

most kids in school would rather be pro sports superstars than Olympic medalists, especially when they learn that what they have been practicing in school doesn't exist in the Olympics

i apologize for my tin foil hat conspiracy theories that we should have freestyle and Greco roman instead of folkstyle in school

 

[jack36767]

Good call bro

You wont wind up with the yellow card of shame as i have

Learn from my mistakes

They can say its a shame your family wasent murdered and its ok

They can slam your
Age
Race
Gender
Culture
Geographic location
And slander you with false claims of religious and gender bigotry

However if you post a pic of them and crack a joke sherdog mods wont stand for that!!

Are you ok dude?

You didn’t crack a joke.. you used it to attempt to discredit my opinion and expertise and misrepresent me because I dared to disagree with you.. then wouldn’t accept someone pulling up your own very relevant background to make the same point. It was far more than a “joke”

Why are you acting like such a victim?

 

[-guerilla-]

Are you ok dude?

You didn’t crack a joke.. you used it to attempt to discredit my opinion and expertise and misrepresent me because I dared to disagree with you.. then wouldn’t accept someone pulling up your own very relevant background to make the same point. It was far more than a “joke”

Why are you acting like such a victim?

clearly you were right and i was wrong

now i understand that its perfectly fine for you to mock my
Age
Race
Gender
Culture
Geographic location
And slander me with false claims of religious and gender bigotry

however I crossed the line by posting funny pics of you getting beat and attempted to discredit your opinion and expertise and misrepresent you because you dared to disagree with me

the sherdog mods straightened me out

thanks again for not having me banned b4!

 

[jack36767]

I apologize for your confusion...I thought you said I got drunk on canned beer and since i was an old stupid fat redneck that dont know nuthing about wrasslin i beat my wife in frustration

I had my wrestlers go 3 min with me to show them what full speed competition was like with an aggressive opponent, i should have been more clear about that...i see now why you thought i was abusing them

most kids in school would rather be pro sports superstars than Olympic medalists, especially when they learn that what they have been practicing in school doesn't exist in the Olympics

i apologize for my tin foil hat conspiracy theories that we should have freestyle and Greco roman instead of folkstyle in school

I apologize for your confusion...I thought you said I got drunk on canned beer and since i was an old stupid fat redneck that dont know nuthing about wrasslin i beat my wife in frustration

I had my wrestlers go 3 min with me to show them what full speed competition was like with an aggressive opponent, i should have been more clear about that...i see now why you thought i was abusing them

most kids in school would rather be pro sports superstars than Olympic medalists, especially when they learn that what they have been practicing in school doesn't exist in the Olympics

i apologize for my tin foil hat conspiracy theories that we should have freestyle and Greco roman instead of folkstyle in school

That is not what you said or implied when you stated it.

Again, I have never said you beat your wife.

I inquired to your background. I pointed out the verifiable fact the south and especially Kentucky is not that good at wrestling outside a few studs. You have twisted this into me talking bad about the south rather than look at verifiable data

No most kids would rather be pro athletes period. Stop trying to justify turning kids away from wrestling to get them in your gym.

 

[jack36767]

clearly you were right and i was wrong

now i understand that its perfectly fine for you to mock my
Age
Race
Gender
Culture
Geographic location
And slander me with false claims of religious and gender bigotry

however I crossed the line by posting funny pics of you getting beat and attempted to discredit your opinion and expertise and misrepresent you because you dared to disagree with me

the sherdog mods straightened me out

thanks again for not having me banned b4!

So let me get this straight. You get yourself yellow carded/put on probation.

You blame me?

Despite the fact that if I was going to do so I’d have done it far before this. I didn’t.

So now you are martyring yourself to PC flame bait me.. as “revenge”

Are you going to talk about wrestling or keep doing what you accused me of?

 

[jack36767]

Jared...you won

there's nothing left to say

i admit you are a better wrestler, coach and know way more about the sport than i do...

im just an old stupid lazy alcoholic southafrican who abuses his athletes and tries to smack talk the sport because i hold a grudge against folkstyle wrestling because of my personal failings

I did get banned from the USA wrestling forum when I posted a similar thread

i did say "something about women and Muslims in wrestling"

the sherdog moderators took your side and declared you the winner by giving me the yellow card

its over ...you won

you are the champion of the thread

you beat me down with your superior knowledge and skills

congratulations to Jared Prestly of Chicago's beat the streets wrestling program

Sigh, you messed my name up again.

You are being sarcastic and pretending to grovel so you can get rid of the yellow card you earned all by yourself.

If you meant what you are saying you wouldn’t be doing this "woe is me, I'm a poor lil victim routine".

Back to actual wrestling. Here are the participation numbers by state for this years Junior and Cadet Nationals.
Cadet Freestyle

Illinois 80
Ohio 72
California 61
Pennsylvania 60
Minnesota 59
Washington 58
Oregon 57
Wisconsin 53
Oklahoma 51
Indiana 47
Iowa 46
Missouri 43
New York 38
Georgia 35
Arizona 32
Arkansas 31
Texas 30
Virginia 30
New Jersey 30
Colorado 29
Kansas 28
Utah 26
Nebraska 25
Florida 21
Michigan 21
Idaho 21
Montana 17
South Dakota 17
Massachusetts 16
North Dakota 15
Connecticut 15
Wyoming 15
Maryland 12
Tennessee 11
Alabama 10
North Carolina 9
Nevada 7
Rhode Island 6
Alaska 5
Kentucky 3
Hawaii 3
South Carolina 2
West Virginia 2
New Mexico 2
Maine 1
Delaware 1

Junior Freestyle

Illinois 77
Ohio 67
Pennsylvania 63
California 62
Missouri 55
Iowa 51
Wisconsin 48
Minnesota 47
Indiana 46
Washington 45
Oregon 43
New York 41
Oklahoma 40
Colorado 37
Virginia 34
Arizona 34
Arkansas 33
Kansas 30
Florida 29
Georgia 28
Utah 28
Nebraska 25
Texas 24
Wyoming 24
North Dakota 23
Michigan 22
New Jersey 20
South Dakota 18
Alaska 17
Montana 17
Massachusetts 15
Connecticut 14
Hawaii 12
Maryland 12
North Carolina 12
Idaho 12
Alabama 11
West Virginia 9
Tennessee 8
Nevada 8
Kentucky 7
South Carolina 6
Delaware 6
Maine 4
Rhode Island 3
Louisiana 3
New Mexico 2

I can post Greco as well. As well as the results.

You are asking to discuss why America can't win international wrestling. Well even before we get into your grandiose ideas. Looking at the current development system. The southern states don't seem to be pulling their weight population wise in producing high level prospects at even the age group level.

Why is it that Indiana, a largely rural state with an athletic commission that activity impedes all other sports in the interest of basketball, less of a population of North Carolina and the same population as Kentucky can put up at least 4x the amount of wrestlers to Fargo?

What can the south do better to pull its weight in producing top level wrestlers for the US? Imagine how many more medals we could win if ALL of the country pulled its weight as far as development even before grandiose big changes..

EDIT: Georgia, at the Cadet (16 years old and younger) is pulling their weight. Even if most of that is due to elite clubs and open enrollment schools in the Atlanta area. I must give credit where credit is due and not leave out any facts

 

[yetanother]

I can post Greco as well. As well as the results.

In regards to Greco do you think it's possible for folkstyle athletes to do well in it?

 

[jack36767]

In regards to Greco do you think it's possible for folkstyle athletes to do well in it?

Yes, if the development system is improved. Even if the switch he slobbers over was made. Greco would still be massively behind

 

[yetanother]

Yes, if the development system is improved. Even if the switch he slobbers over was made. Greco would still be massively behind

Switching to greco doesn't seem doable or desirable. Folkstyle also seems to have a much bigger audience then I would imagine Greco could ever hope for.
How do you expect the development system for Greco to look like?

 

[-guerilla-]

Switching to greco doesn't seem doable or desirable. Folkstyle also seems to have a much bigger audience then I would imagine Greco could ever hope for.
How do you expect the development system for Greco to look like?

Greco is probably the toughest one to consider switching to

folkstyle athletes will have a terrible time with it as compared to freestyle

 

[sb413197]

Freestyle wrestling is pretty exciting to watch, with its huge throws and slams. Folkstyle does seem like a very good base for MMA though (BJJ too), and folkstyle wrestlers have an incredible base and scrambling/control on the ground.

Maybe if "collegiate" wrestling turned into "high school" wrestling, and freestyle/greco were the main ones in college...

 

[-guerilla-]

Freestyle wrestling is pretty exciting to watch, with its huge throws and slams. Folkstyle does seem like a very good base for MMA though (BJJ too), and folkstyle wrestlers have an incredible base and scrambling/control on the ground.

Maybe if "collegiate" wrestling turned into "high school" wrestling, and freestyle/greco were the main ones in college...

wow awesome post

A compromised that would wildly increase Americas success in international wrestling

a very intelligent theory but remember I never said folkstyle wrestling was not a good base for MMA

I said it wasn't the very best base for MMA

there's a big difference

folkstyle and BJJ are fantastic bases for MMA

freestyle wrestling is just a little bit better

in another thread I said that freestyle wrestling, sambo and gi less BJJ were the ultimate 3 grappling sports for MMA

the only thing better of course would be MMA

IE shooto/pankratIon

 

[-guerilla-]