Why America cant win International wrestling

[jack36767]

Well gerald...

They have enough intelligence to recognize the futility and obsolete status of folkstyle wrestling

the future will relegate folkstyle to the dustbin of history, this is one of the first stones in the project

some are just out of touch disciples of their past and cant adapt to the future, intimidated by the prospect of a superior system replacing their obsolete style

[I would post a pic of you failing to adapt now but your sherdaddies said i cant anymore because you will cry cry cry and whine about "harassment"]

you are a sherdamsel and your sherdaddies will protect you from the most sever aspect of my responses...

you have achieved safespace status

ps
how do you know none of my athletes wrestled past highschool?

Look. Instead of actually addressing my point. You misname and whine. Typical.


I asked you to state results. Let me clarify.
“Based off your verifiable on paper results and lack of improvement after year one”

Which occurred in a weak state state for wrestling with extraordinary low numbers of participation. All of which can be verified with data or lack thereof.

You did not produce athletes good enough to get scholarship or OTC offers. If you had a walk on who did well at a D3 or NAIA in spite of your coaching. I apologize to them.

Again, I’m not worried personally about a switch and coached close to a hundred freestyle matches this spring.

 

[-guerilla-]

Look. Instead of actually addressing my point. You misname and whine. Typical.


I asked you to state results. Let me clarify.
“Based off your verifiable on paper results and lack of improvement after year one”

Which occurred in a weak state state for wrestling with extraordinary low numbers of participation. All of which can be verified with data or lack thereof.

You did not produce athletes good enough to get scholarship or OTC offers. If you had a walk on who did well at a D3 or NAIA in spite of your coaching. I apologize to them.

Again, I’m not worried personally about a switch and coached close to a hundred freestyle matches this spring.

seriously bro don't worry about me and my background let's talk about the sport of wrestling and its future instead

Just focus on the sport not on me...

I dont even care that much about wrestling

You are WAY more into it than i am...its just something i do if i cant find MMA sparring...just like JUDO

 

[cjlewis01]

I'm going to explain my background.

I currently coach at all 3 levels. I run a youth club. I am also the head coach of a school program that has both junior high and high school that I am in the process of rebuilding. I promote all 3 styles and my son as a youth has competed in all 3 styles.

I am a Bjj brown belt who runs a gym and has had some mma fights as well.

All 3 styles are great. Greco will not sell at the youth level in any way. I dont see an argument that can change my mind. With today's parents Greco would just not fly.

Your argument about our results internationally are inclusive of all Greco and women's.

Womens wrestling is growing exponentially across the country and I think it will show internationally shortly. Greco is a lost cause in sue happy concussion fearing America.

I dont care as much about the Olympics and international success. I care about the sport as a whole. And eliminating folkstyle is a knee jerk reaction to skewed data that kills the sport in this country where its already declining for various other reasons none of them being because we competitive worldwide, although we are.

Maybe its because im in northeast Ohio where wrestling has been tremendous for years. But I see the majority of coaches promoting freestyle and Greco.

Let's also not forget that the elite kids with Olympic aspirations are able to choose to forgo folkstyle in high school. Kyle Snyder did that his senior season. The Tagg brothers have moved to Colorado for the same reason. The Decatur brothers were rumored to be considering it before staying at cvca.

Your argument is to blow something up when we can have our cake and eat it too

 

[peregrine]

Guerilla you keep saying MMA.

To me mma is the end of the road for athletes, it's not and should not be a goal for elite athletes till they retire from international competition.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Araju takes Silver at Jrs teching the returning Champ en route

Tagg get a Bronze

Carr takes Gold also beating a returning Champ

Hidlay with a Bronze

Davison with a Silver

Parris pinned and teched his way to a gold

Future doesn't look to good for USA Wrestling

 

[-guerilla-]

Freestyle is simply Superior to folk style in every conceivable category except turning a guy who's in Turtle to his back

As it relates to MMA freestyle is light-years ahead of folkstyle Because it focuses almost exclusively on the takedown

Remember folkstyle wrestlers concentrate on holding a guy down or turning an athlete who is in turtle

That is a very small cross section of MMA skill

Freestyle wrestlers concentrate on taking a guy from his feet to the ground

this is a critical MMA skill that is a fight winning factor in most bouts

folkstyle wrestlers spend most of their training time trying to turn a guy over and pin him who is broken down to turtle...

when they run up against a freestyle athlete who spent their entire life perfecting takedowns the folkstyle athlete is going to be the one on the receiving end of the takedowns

 

[ChainFlow]

Holding a guy down is NOT a small part of MMA. It's a massive part of it.

 

[Greco_Wiz]

Think our junior team took second this year. Our seniors will almost surely take 2-3 this year too. Only country consistently better than us over the last 5 years in men’s freestyle is Russia, and I honestly think we beat them in 2020 (applying world’s scoring criteria). RTCs have made the US a powerhouse in freestyle wrestling and you can expect that for years to come.

 

[-guerilla-]

Holding a guy down is NOT a small part of MMA. It's a massive part of it.

Problem is in folkstyle you're holding a guy down that stays in turtle or gos sternal

in MMA you're trying to hold a guy down that uses the guard and Works off his back so it is a completely different skill set

 

[-guerilla-]

Think our junior team took second this year. Our seniors will almost surely take 2-3 this year too. Only country consistently better than us over the last 5 years in men’s freestyle is Russia, and I honestly think we beat them in 2020 (applying world’s scoring criteria). RTCs have made the US a powerhouse in freestyle wrestling and you can expect that for years to come.

part-time training with folkstyle convert coaches will never be as effective as countries that use freestyle from the start

That's why America can't win international wrestling and that's why big American advertisers don't support American wrestling and that's why the Olympics is going to drop wrestling

I hope you're right but I think this is going to be an unfortunate case of too little too late

By holding on to folkstyle wrestling as our primary style we have literally allowed International wrestling to Wither on the vine

 

[-guerilla-]

Well...

once again the painful truth emerges as America gets its ass handed to it in international wrestling yet again

if it weren't for the ladies the men's team would have come in some distant position that I can't even imagine in this go around

what's happening in that the ladies have to hold the torch 4 men's wrestling in the United States???

exactly how much FOLKSTYLE contamination do the ladies have in compairison to the men??

1

Russia 9 5 5
2

United States 5 0 2
3

Georgia 4 0 2
4

Japan 3 3 3
5

Azerbaijan 1 3 2
6

Turkey 1 2 1

Ukraine 1 2 1
8

Iran 1 1 5
9

Hungary 1 1 2
10

Cuba 1 1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_World_Wrestling_Championships

... all credit in the world to the women's freestyle American wrestling team as they brought in three gold medals in this go around!!!!

If not for the ladies phenomenal performance the men's team would have come in somewhere around fifth or sixth I believe!!!

Jacarra Winchester
Tamyra Mensah
Adeline Gray

YOU GO GIRLS!!!!

 

[SandisLL]

Folkstyle isn't there guilty at all.

Instead of yelling about soviets and state support ( pretend that U.S top athletes doesn't have it ) look at other countries and what activities in what society is PRIDE. Real pride. That can't be paid with Money.
Education.
Ask for example french students in sport science, what their debt for tuition is and compare with your country.
What stuff where is PRIDE. Money, debts for tuition or dreams or state support.

Soviets produced many thousands of university educated trainers without students loans, instead of this they paid support payments to students to get the best.
It isn't comfortable to see, that sport industry starts with system that employs educated trainers, that produce athletes, to get pool from where to select for higher level training, then again and again in next level.
Europe now too in many countries heavily subsidises education and offers tuition without debts.
Bunches of countries, nationalities in caucasus, asia have menatality that grappling is PRIDE. This of course helps to attract kids even if support is low. Again there is enough athletes from what they are able to select…… Mentality.

 

[SBC]

Lol, we took 3rd without our best team and KAZ getting an extremely easy draw because GASP the worlds were in Kazakhstan! Your acting like we aren't a couple years removed from winning a world title. People just love to shit on America and it's lame.

Funny how people aren't focusing on how poorly a country like say Iran did but are focusing on how "badly" taking 3rd is, Lol. American wrestling is getting better and better. Have we become this spoiled that taking third is so bad when a couple years ago all we had was Burroughs?

 

[SandisLL]

lame is to pay student loans for sports degrees.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Can we please let this thread die? It will never end!

 

[Lavitz]

Lol, we took 3rd without our best team and KAZ getting an extremely easy draw because GASP the worlds were in Kazakhstan! Your acting like we aren't a couple years removed from winning a world title. People just love to shit on America and it's lame.

Funny how people aren't focusing on how poorly a country like say Iran did but are focusing on how "badly" taking 3rd is, Lol. American wrestling is getting better and better. Have we become this spoiled that taking third is so bad when a couple years ago all we had was Burroughs?

Well not just Burroughs. We’ve always had talent sprinkled around. Past couple of cycles US has only gotten better.

Remember in 2012 there was Burroughs, Varner, Coleman, and Tervel that medaled.

Wish Taylor could have made worlds this year.

 

[SandisLL]

People just love to shit on America and it's lame.

No one is shitting.
U.S people can't assume that all what doesn't likes them is " shitting " and see anywhere " soviets " and state support.
There are plenty of countries where wrestling is highly popular, some of them never were sovietic.

We aren't quilty that general population isn't interested in grappling, that student loans are high etc.

 

[SBC]

No this has likely much more to do with the prevalence of Murrcan wrestlers in the UFC and the relative absence of non-Murrcan wrestlers up until now.

Also, if we look at the 2 most dominating wrestlers (or at least wrestling heavy fighters) in their weight classes in recent history, i.e. GSP and Khabib, these 2 likely never trained folkstyle one day in their lives.

No one is shitting.
U.S people can't assume that all what doesn't likes them is " shitting " and see anywhere " soviets " and state support.
There are plenty of countries where wrestling is highly popular, some of them never were sovietic.

We aren't quilty that general population isn't interested in grappling, that student loans are high etc.

Maybe I was feeding the trolls a little, but a lot of people were doing a lot of shitting on our wrestling in a couple different threads. There are definitely roadblocks as to why the US isn't #1 in the world, but people acting like we had a terrible showing and American wrestling is crap is far from the truth. We obviously don't have wrestling ingrained in the minds of what seems to be all able-bodied men like the Caucasus countries, but I think that is what makes the USA's gains in freestyle impressive. Other countries athletes are treated like kings and receive handsome sums of money to compete. Americans don't. We do it purely for the love. and not because we can't feed our families without it. I don't see what student loan debt has to do with anything or whatever nonsense that was about getting a sports degree. You don't want debt tell the government to get the hell out of education. People choosing to get sports degrees and going into debt? That's their own fault. Don't know what that has to do with wrestling.

The problem that I see with American wrestling is that we have relied on it being a scholastic and collegiate sport. The reason why we have gotten much better at wrestling has been because of the private clubs that are realizing they can make money by opening up shop and coaching. I think the more clubs we have specializing in wrestling the better our wrestling will continue to get. That way people can make the choice of whether they wrestle folk,free, or greco and then train in solely those if they so choose.

If people had been ragging on our greco program, I wouldn't have had as big of a problem because it does suck, Lol. But we are making nice gains in freestyle and out placing Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Georgia and taking third doesn't suck at all. It is very good. We are getting depth we didn't have before and hell, when you take into consideration that there were other Americans who wrestled for and qualified weights for other countries I think it just adds to the optimism. People like Micic and Amine are doing what a lot of Dagestanis and Ossetians do and repping other countries because America is becoming so deep that it make sense to go elsewhere and be guaranteed a spot. These are good signs and not bad.

I have no problem with how Russia or other former soviet states do their business or their wrestlers. Don't know why that was assumed.

 

[tekkenfan]

Holding a guy down is NOT a small part of MMA. It's a massive part of it.

exactly.. until pro i didnt realize this i just worked takedowns only then realized how hard it is to keep guys down which is where folk guys do very well freestyle guys dont ever hold guys down romero for instance

 

[tekkenfan]

Problem is in folkstyle you're holding a guy down that stays in turtle or gos sternal

in MMA you're trying to hold a guy down that uses the guard and Works off his back so it is a completely different skill set

not so much today at top levels u rarely even see guard in ufc today at top levels which sucks thats why even though im a bjj guy i had to start working on turtle breakdowns ect because guys just wana stand back up now after being takendown they realize if they dont get the sub they lose the round even maia doesnt try to catch subs off his back