Why Americans cant win International kickboxing

ukraine and belarus are countries where kickboxing/thaiboxing took off really well

the main difference is that there the goverment supports athletes so they can train full time they dont need a job like in western countries

for example this guy is supported by his goverment so he can train full time(he won his weightclass in the world championship this year and ha also beat ex lumpenee champ Khem sitsongpeenong who has fought in glory)

he beat my countrys best muay thai guy in first fights of the tournament




Interesting.

I wasn’t aware of that, I thought most countries only paid for amateur boxers to train full time.

It very likely helps in general.

That said most of those guys were likely ready for a pro fight. I doubt they were 30 pounds overweight, taken off the couch and turned into a pro fighter.
ukraine and belarus are countries where kickboxing/thaiboxing took off really well

the main difference is that there the goverment supports athletes so they can train full time they dont need a job like in western countries

for example this guy is supported by his goverment so he can train full time(he won his weightclass in the world championship this year and ha also beat ex lumpenee champ Khem sitsongpeenong who has fought in glory)

he beat my countrys best muay thai guy in first fights of the tournament




Government funding has to help significantly although I doubt they are plucking anyone off the street 30lb overweight, I guess the one's who receive funding are very close to receiving a government pay cheque anyway, sounds like you know more about it than me.
 
Interesting.

I wasn’t aware of that, I thought most countries only paid for amateur boxers to train full time.

It very likely helps in general.

That said most of those guys were likely ready for a pro fight. I doubt they were 30 pounds overweight, taken off the couch and turned into a pro fighter.


Government funding has to help significantly although I doubt they are plucking anyone off the street 30lb overweight, I guess the one's who receive funding are very close to receiving a government pay cheque anyway, sounds like you know more about it than me.

Nah they have to start as kids and go through their sports system.

In the ex soviet countries starting as an adult and reaching pro level is pretty much impossible
 
Governments usually supports Olympic sports and there country from country and mind from mind differs.
For example one old and rich non east european country gave 0 for Olympic gold, sometimes some ex SU countries might do gift 50000 bucks for bronze in european championship be it wrestling or ice skating.

When SU falled they quickly developed more than 5 karate federations for at least 5 styles and had quickly developed bunch of different wu shu clubs etc.
In order to compete under universal rules many teens and young males converted to KB competitions and now not rarity, that they are trainers for KB.
Muay Thai appeared in ex SU later than was well known in U.S and Muay Thai is more suitable for so popular in U.S MMA due to rules closer to MMA.
I think that U.S have plenty of chances develop brilliant Muay Thai generation but low chances in KB. A few champions will not change anything in general trend.


About poor eastern ex su europe, to get in some cage good mediocre striker fighter for 1000 or 2000 pounds is only dream.
Eastern Europe isn't so poor what media think and write about ex SU.

Government support is just supposed cause in some chases with guys from Eastern Europe, cos ….
I know some guys, who get medals, some cups etc.
One recieved premial payments only when won European Championship, another when get bronze etc. Until this….. club sponsors, cos due to concurrence it is good to have medalists in club's students list!
Another worked and with parents support get to pro level.
Next recieved 0, after medal in european championship some pieces of …. this was. He was medalist in KB. Now he does pro boxing.
Cos KB isn't Olympic sport, his training wasn't subsidised by government. If he did wrestling or another Olympic sport then most likely his parents didn't paid for tutelage.

They have, yes, some countries where premiums are generous even for non olympic sports, but some doesn't cares about non adults medals in non Olympic sports.
mainly teens parents paid registrastion fees for participation in European Championship in one karate style etc.
Beating competitions for youth in KB, not just only one country but a bit regional: registration fees, provide Insurance etc papers. Majority was paid by parents and sponsors.

They have countries who supports it but in general NO.
 
Last edited:
n the ex soviet countries starting as an adult and reaching pro level is pretty much impossible
Even bronze level in ammy championship isn't possible.
Only if transition from one art to another with long term training in previous art and decent abilities + talent.
 
Even bronze level in ammy championship isn't possible.
Only if transition from one art to another with long term training in previous art and decent abilities + talent.

I agree.

But the point I was getting at was it’s not like these competitors were handed everything on a plate. They likely had to be a decent standard before they could qualify for funding.
 
But the point I was getting at was it’s not like these competitors were handed everything on a plate
Of course no. Many ex sovietic countries didn't had government funding programmes for KB, karate at all. In modern days also as non Olympic sport in some places this recieves little attention until some medals already earned.
Some guys first support from gov get only after medal already earned.
Some ex soviet countries might do gift with 50000 premial gift and even car/ flat in addition for bronze in ice skating at european level or whatever sport plus gifts from sponsors. Some knows that guy exists only after gold in european KB championship earned.
It depends.
Some doesn't pay premiums even for Olympic Gold medal…. even western countries.

I for example know some guys, who did paid real work while they had medals in EU championship level…
For example, I it interesting, that guy who was twice his country champ between youth and later get two medals in ammy champs at european level now works as a junior trainer cos bills must be paid plus is a student... Ok, I know what " support " this lad " recieved ".
I think that now the same, if young guy, student also do paid job instead of continue to bang in ring...
Dear God what a support for guy who competed under K1, full contact KB and also MT rules….

I also think, that antoher guy, former european medalist in youth KB instead of continue now is a professional boxer. He's only 18, now maybe 19 years old. Maybe due to great financial support form government to his efforts in KB scene?
 
So I take it you've never heard of Smokin' Jo Nattawut?
I'm confused here.

I saw in another thread that the members of this forum don't consider Jo a real Thai, yet he was born there...

Why?
 
I'm confused here.

I saw in another thread that the members of this forum don't consider Jo a real Thai, yet he was born there...

Why?
Smokin' Jo cut his teeth on Muay Thai in the US, not in Thailand. A true representation of what a Nakmuay in the States is capable of. The American Dream.
 
I'm confused here.

I saw in another thread that the members of this forum don't consider Jo a real Thai, yet he was born there...

Why?
He is a real thai for sure, he moved to the US as an adult and trains there now.

People just make a lot of jokes about him on this forum because IIRC he was calling out Yodsanklai and saying he was the best muay thai fighters etc so people started saying he was the GOAT

Also there seemed to be some home turf favoritism in his fight against Petchtanong Banchamek, which Nattawut should have lost but was given a controversial win. You could say he is the best american muay thai fighter in that sense
 
Last edited:
He is a real thai for sure, he moved to the US as an adult and trains there now.

People just make a lot of jokes about him on this forum because IIRC he was calling out Yodsanklai and saying he was the best muay thai fighters etc so people started saying he was the GOAT

Also there seemed to be some home turf favoritism in his fight against Petchtanong Banchamek, which Nattawut should have lost but was given a controversial win. You could say he is the best american muay thai fighter in that sense
Oh ok. Gotcha.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
Muay Thai developed a bad reputation in the US thanks to 2 brawls that ensued in 1977 and 1989. The 1977 match involved Benny Urquidez vs Narongnoi Kiatbandit and had the audience start fighting one another near the end. The 1989 one involved Rod Kei vs Saekson Janjira and got so bad that Thom Harinck of Chakuriki tried to calm the crowd down without avail. So no surprise Americans didn't really delve into MT compared to the more family-friendly PKA/WKA matches that had flashy kicks instead of clinching with knees or elbows.

Don't forget that full-contact karate was entrenched well in the 1970's and that Muay Thai was seen as a brutal bloodsport or "organized street-fighting" by FC Karate pundits. So the lack of financial incentives, legitimate schools that trained in elbows, knees, and clinch and no public support is why the US is behind the Netherlands and France in international kickboxing. The best that we had was Maurice Smith (who KO'd Frank Lobman, Peter Smit, and Andre Mannart) but couldn't defeat the elite European competitors like Hoost, Aerts, Hug, Le Banner, etc.
 
US is behind the Netherlands and France in international kickboxing.
I think it is not because this.
In US MMA becomed popular earlier than in Europe but in modern days Muay Thai looks lucrative to teens who wish compete in striking or MMA.
In addition U.S scene offers wide range with xx names of karate styles, many of them i newer knew that exists before looked U.S internet portals about these Karate dojos in U.S.
Boxe is lucrative scene in English language countries with so old roots.
There also different TKD, what creates enough lucrative road to teens etc.
legitimate schools that trained in elbows, knees,
That these karates and not only karates have it even grading curriculums...a lot if old type approach.
and clinch
Yes, I think modern sports Muay Thai is maybe the best for clinch game in IRL even for SD not only sport.
 
Ok so i just checked the final results for thaiboxing world championships that i mentioned earlier and it was like i said.

Eastern euros run things pretty much over 70-75 kg and thais run everything under it.

There was one turk in top 3 of his weight class, one frenchman in top 3 of his weightclass.

And the big surprise sweden had 2 guys in top 3 in 2 different weightclasses.

No dutch in top 3 or other western euros from what i saw.
 
Ok so i just checked the final results for thaiboxing world championships that i mentioned earlier and it was like i said.

Eastern euros run things pretty much over 70-75 kg and thais run everything under it.

There was one turk in top 3 of his weight class, one frenchman in top 3 of his weightclass.

And the big surprise sweden had 2 guys in top 3 in 2 different weightclasses.

No dutch in top 3 or other western euros from what i saw.
If you're talking about the IFMA world championship you should take the results with a big grain of salt.
 
If you're talking about the IFMA world championship you should take the results with a big grain of salt.

Yeah i know


I actually prefer wako when talking about these type of competitions

(Not muay thai but better than ifma as an org)
 
Yeah i know


I actually prefer wako when talking about these type of competitions

(Not muay thai but better than ifma as an org)
Most euro gyms i've been to had one or more IFMA world chaoionships top 3 fighter. Generally the level of those wasn't very high.
 
Most euro gyms i've been to had one or more IFMA world chaoionships top 3 fighter. Generally the level of those wasn't very high.

Its mainly for "pros starting out " from the way they talk about it here

Elite guys wont go there to fight for free lol
 
Back
Top