Why do accomplished Runners do so poorly at MMA cardio?

I never heard of "Joel"
Lol, obviously I knew that you weren't answering most of my questions but I hadn't considered that you weren't actually reading most of my posts.

Now that I do it would be pretty foolish for me to continue; so, I guess that's that.
 
Last edited:
Lol, obviously I knew that you weren't answering most of my questions but I hadn't considered that you weren't actually reading most of my posts.

Now that I do it would be pretty foolish for me to continue; so, I guess that's that.


I was reading them just not following up on the links because I think your science is accurate just your theory has a major flaw

The more skilled fighter will have better cardio de facto because they will dominate the positional exchanges

You learn the skills to dominate positions on the grappling mat NOT running down the road

Your science is accurate

I understand the validity of building a cardio base with steady state

Its just NOT worth the TIME it takes when you could be building BETTER CARDIO WHILE GAINING SKILLS by grappling "for cardio"

the fighter that spends more time on the mat is gonna win because they have ENOUGH cardio and MORE SKILLS so they will consistently beat someone who may have a bit MORE cardio yet LESS SKILLS

now when you enter in slow-twitch taking over from fast-twitch and that testosterone situation I think it is abundantly clear that low intensify steady state cardio has virtually no place in Combat Sports conditioning

i appreciate your effort, tenacity and maturity....my point was that I had never heard of "joel" until you brought him up
 
Last edited:
It's very different, phisically, mentally, movement wise

Yes EXACTLY

They are very different

...runners are smart enough to stick to their sport because they know that practicing Sports specific conditioning is the smartest way to train

Even though swimming has been proven scientifically to be a more efficient cardiovascular exercise than running Runners don't swim for cardio... they RUN for cardio because they plan on competing IN running (NOT SWIMMING) and running and swimming are very different
 
You're not answering the question, which is specifically about cardio and how to train to build the biggest engine. You're correct that those positional exchanges and the technique and savvy to win them are more important than having slightly better cardio. Yes, the guy who takes superior position is going to exert less energy but that has nothing to do with the question of how to optimize cardio.



You again bring up jogging. I'm not arguing in favor of jogging. I had a similar discussion about this with my wrestling coach who said that the work McGregor did with Ido Portal on balance beams, olympic rings, moving in strange ways, and playing touch butt in the park was stupid and should have been used to improve his weak area of wrestling.

You should spend your time doing the activity(ies) that you're specifically trying to improve at, whether it be wrestling, boxing, mma, or jogging. What I'm advocating, and you don't have a lot of knowledge about, is the implementation of training zones, training blocks, micro cycles, macro cycles, periodization, aerobic base training, threshold training, and anaerobic interval training. I don't think you're familiar with some of these concepts. The principles behind them can be utilized in just about any sport.

It's more challenging to use zone specific training in wrestling and combat sports because of the dynamic and irregular nature of training with a partner. Really you need a heart rate monitor and partners and coaches who understand what you're trying to achieve in a training session, but the benefits of training with a focus on systematically improving a specific energy system for a month or two at a time and then building upon that is big.

In cycling or running, it's easier to quantify training zones. It's very straightforward in both sports. With running, you run at varying speeds and measurements are taken. With cycling, in a performance lab setting, they measure by power or the number of watts generated at any given time. EVERY serious rider in cycling trains with both a heart rate monitor and a power meter. Determining an athlete's lactate threshold, max heart rate, and vo2 max is fairly simple.

How do you imitate this kind of a controlled environment where power or output, oxygen consumption, and blood lactate can be measured in a combat sport? You can't, but that doesn't make performance measurements of this type and training zones established off of those numbers useless.

Testing begins at about 2:20 into the video


Getting numbers like these from a treadmill or stationary bike can help you determine training zones that, with a heart rate monitor or going by feel for an experienced athlete (very easy, easy, tempo, hard, all out), will enable you to build your aerobic base to a greater level than just going easy or blasting. You and many martial arts coaches are still in the dark ages when it comes to the higher level science of building cardio.

My wrestling coach also talked about wrestling at different intensities and being able to try new things that you can't do when you're always rolling at 100%. He said Dave Schultz used to train this way a lot in a less intense flow roll style. If you have partners and coaches who understand the objective of the training session, it's possible to target specific energy systems even in a less controlled sport like wrestling or mma (compared to cycling or running).

Does that mean that it's not extremely important to know when and how to use proper technique to blast your way into a superior position so that you can use less energy than the other guy from there on in the match? No, but all other factors being equal, you should still strive to maximize your athlete's cardio in addition to proper technique and strategy.

Also, different subject entirely, but if you're a heavyweight and don't need to cut much or at all, then I think it's not a big deal to carry some extra fat. It can actually help cushion and protect you and make you less likely to be injured compared to a lean guy who is mainly skin, muscle, and bone.



Well I have been employed as a scientific professional AND athletic coach for over 20 years so things like implementation of training zones, training blocks, micro cycles, macro cycles, periodization, aerobic base training, threshold training, and anaerobic interval training have came up a few times...

heavyweights do carry extra fat better as the weight class is far more wide [literally]

you can spend all kinds of your training time "optimizing cardio" but when your opponent spent their VALUABLE TRAINING TIME "optimizing their grappling" your mitochondria is NOT gonna get you out of that headlock

its always gonna be easier to monitor somebody on a stationary bike rather than someone in a grappling contest

i dont need a heart rate monitor to tell me how hard somebody is working [the talk test works just fine]

thats just a slick sales pitch to get you to pay up for the secret to "cardio optimization"

*problem is you forgot about the headlock because you were too worried about your mitochondria
 
Oh wow. A guy who says he's injured and can't run, who trains fucking high school kids, says running sucks. Everyone throw your running shoes away.
 
https://www.8weeksout.com/2012/02/23/roadwork-2-0-the-comeback/

joels caveat:
"There is no doubt that there is recent research that shows high intensity interval training can be a more effective conditioning method than longer, slower, steady-state training such as roadwork"

translation: modern science says dont run for COMBAT cardio but i have a special way to run called roadword 2.0...it works BETTER because its NOT jogging [NOT ROADWORK] LOL

joel backs away from "running for cardio" [caveat 2.0]:
"The biggest change in Roadwork 2.0 is that running doesn’t have to be the only form of training used. In fact, I often use other forms of exercise and training that are lower impact than running such as:

  • Jumping rope
  • Swimming
  • Bicycling
  • Sled dragging
  • Shadowboxing
  • Elliptical
  • Rower
  • Medicine ball Circuits
  • Heavy Bag or Pad work
  • Bodyweight Calisthenics"
translation: dont run "FOR CARDIO" do this instead [not roadwork]

Joel is a salesman with pretty ears, I be he would gas vs the average B level heavyweight IN UNDER 3 MIN because he has no grappling background [yet is a respected trainer]

BOTTOM LINE....
  • DONT "run for cardio"....DO MMA FOR CARDIO!
joels "roadwork 2.0" is NOT JOGGING FOR CARDIO because modern training methods have proven that "jogging for cardio" is inferior way to boost your combat conditioning

roadwork 2.0 = NOT RUNNING FOR CARDIO

Joel said: "I prefer to use a mixture of steady state running and Roadwork circuits"

Translation: "dont simply run for cardio" do this instead....
  • Jumping rope
  • Swimming
  • Bicycling
  • Sled dragging
  • Shadowboxing
  • Elliptical
  • Rower
  • Medicine ball Circuits
  • Heavy Bag or Pad work
  • Bodyweight Calisthenics

sounds like "Joel" has never had a single combat sport contest in his life but sells 50$ paperback on amazon!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/124969-mma-interview-joel-jamieson

 
Last edited:
Bro you are telling people here you, in your high school coaching wisdom, have discovered that there is not enough training time in the day to run, yet here you are online wasting your time talking to the wall. So your credibility on time managment is suspect.
 
Those kids you are basing this fitness blog you got here on have plenty of time to run too. They prioritize other shit. Get over this idea you have to pick one. Weak people think like that if the shoe fits go running in it.
 
Oh wow. A guy who says he's injured and can't run, who trains fucking high school kids, says running sucks. Everyone throw your running shoes away.

Bro you are telling people here you, in your high school coaching wisdom, have discovered that there is not enough training time in the day to run, yet here you are online wasting your time talking to the wall. So your credibility on time managment is suspect.

Those kids you are basing this fitness blog you got here on have plenty of time to run too. They prioritize other shit. Get over this idea you have to pick one. Weak people think like that if the shoe fits go running in it.

You run for cardio I will wrestle for cardio and when we meet on the mat I will choke you out

You (and your mitochondria) will have plenty of energy to go jogging after you wake up

#he bought the book
1579365878711.jpg
 
If you are too injured to run you better stick to high school kids man what if your legs started hurting when we get to wrasslin'?!
 
Dude you sound awesome.

If you are too injured to run you better stick to high school kids man what if your legs started hurting when we get to wrasslin'?!

#butt hurt alt account 101

#go for a jog...i hear its good for stress relief

Had i never broke my leg its likely I would have been just a typical athlete and coach

instead my injury caused me to look for alternate means of training cardio but I soon realized that wrestling was 10x more cardiovascularly demanding than jogging so I just wrestled for cardio

growing up intentionally also exposed me to different attitudes and theories

one of us is a record breaking wrestling coach who founded one of the first MMA gyms in American history

the other thinks running is an important factor for combat sports because he saw people he admired doing it

 
#butt hurt alt account 101

#go for a jog...i hear its good for stress relief

Had i never broke my leg its likely I would have been just a typical athlete and coach

instead my injury caused me to look for alternate means of training cardio but I soon realized that wrestling was 10x more cardiovascularly demanding than jogging so I just wrestled for cardio

growing up intentionally also exposed me to different attitudes and theories

one of us is a record breaking wrestling coach who founded one of the first MMA gyms in American history

the other thinks running is an important factor for combat sports because he saw people he admired doing it



You're a part of MMA history. Like Royce Gracie.
 
Fantasy is your videos you post repeatedly like you have alzheimers, reality is kid can get a lot tougher by himself on the road than he can by hanging out with some has been Ruke Doofus who talks alot about what they can't add to their training.
 
Fantasy is your videos you post repeatedly like you have alzheimers, reality is kid can get a lot tougher by himself on the road than he can by hanging out with some has been Ruke Doofus who talks alot about what they can't add to their training.

* said the annoymous internet avatars
 
It's all about the S.A.I.D (specific adaptation to imposed demands) principle. The physiology of a high level runners has adapted to running, not fighting. Take Diaz, Usman, Colby and all of the best gas tanks in MMA and they won't be able to keep up with Mo Farah on a 10 mile run, at all. That doesn't mean they are out of shape, it just means they haven't physiologically adapted to the specific movement of running like Mo Farah has.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,234,857
Messages
55,312,712
Members
174,734
Latest member
Bob Gnuheart
Back
Top