Why don't we see pure wrestlers utilize neck cranks and guillotines on BJJ guys?

Swepingright

Swepingright

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Given that they have superior control and strength which gives them time to do it, why don't we ever see it?

These are moves they are doing daily as a means of control. Why not morph their game into the precursor art Catch Wrestling (Catch did historically allow chokes under agreement by both participants).

Granted a wrestler knows nothing about jiujitsu, but who cares if he is so superior at control. Just pretend it's top game wrestling, only that the controlling moves are now cranked up (no pun intended)
 
I have seen one do a guillotine on a blue belt and subbed him. But never neck cranks.

Barnett did a neck crank on Lister, but he was Barnett was ofc a Catch Wrestler.
 
rmongler said:
The short answer to your question is... it is seen.

You haven't see it, because you are a dumb casual who hasn't seen anything.
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*Filthy casual

Let us be precise in grammar. Dumb was established by him thinking we’d care bout his picture
 
TBH I’m surprised more people don’t go for can openers from guard. Relatively risk free even if it is low percentage it gives him something else to think about.

back when I did shootfighting we did that shit to each other all the time in practice. What a shitshow that was.
 
There qere quite a few in the early UFCs, I recall Bohlander, Coleman, Tank, Goodridge.

In MMA and sub wrestling now though, there really aren't pure wrestlers. They're still training at MMA gyms with BJJ coaches whose philosophies are to generally choke instead of crank.
 
RemyR said:
TBH I’m surprised more people don’t go for can openers from guard. Relatively risk free even if it is low percentage it gives him something else to think about.

back when I did shootfighting we did that shit to each other all the time in practice. What a shitshow that was.
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The counter is easier than the can opener. In MMA it's easier because the gloves can get caught. I love it when people can opener me.
 
So there's this guy named Marcelo Garcia, maybe you've heard of him? Maybe not, his career is a little obscure.


He went on a tear a while back winning a bunch of stuff by blending wrestling into his jiu jitsu and frequently used guillotines and NS chokes to dominate in nogi.
 
Bluesbreaker said:
There qere quite a few in the early UFCs, I recall Bohlander, Coleman, Tank, Goodridge.

In MMA and sub wrestling now though, there really aren't pure wrestlers. They're still training at MMA gyms with BJJ coaches whose philosophies are to generally choke instead of crank.
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That's a very interesting point. I've trained with wrestlers in BJJ before and it's definitely a different philosophy - in a lot of ways I find it much harder to train with a wrestler less experienced in BJJ than one more experienced in it, because a lot of what they do is so hard to deal with and unfamiliar. Makes you wonder if some wrestlers would have a faster transition to sub grappling if they trained with a different style than strict BJJ
 
sb413197 said:
That's a very interesting point. I've trained with wrestlers in BJJ before and it's definitely a different philosophy - in a lot of ways I find it much harder to train with a wrestler less experienced in BJJ than one more experienced in it, because a lot of what they do is so hard to deal with and unfamiliar. Makes you wonder if some wrestlers would have a faster transition to sub grappling if they trained with a different style than strict BJJ
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I find I just end up in weird stalling positions partially pinned or cradled, but don't get much out of it. I get it's up to me to get out but I am not a massive person and usually have been against bigger wrestler. Adding some good top game subs and the kimura trap and they are absolutely dominant.
 
sb413197 said:
That's a very interesting point. I've trained with wrestlers in BJJ before and it's definitely a different philosophy - in a lot of ways I find it much harder to train with a wrestler less experienced in BJJ than one more experienced in it, because a lot of what they do is so hard to deal with and unfamiliar. Makes you wonder if some wrestlers would have a faster transition to sub grappling if they trained with a different style than strict BJJ
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For a long while something one too often saw was, guys with experience in other larger grappling sports trying out bjj, but especially guys with experience in more takedown/neutral game focused grappling sports, but especially especially guys with scholastic wrestling experience specifically, being passive-aggresively pushed into downplaying those skills, with instructors sometimes even tending to coach guys with such experience towards games that purposefully ignore qualities they might have developed, rather than work with them synergistically, in a way they might not even do for someone without any background at all, out of some misguided parochial partisanship that is probably not consciously acknowledged.

You see that less often nowadays since people have been discovering - or been obliged by sheer trial and error of competitive necessity if nothing else - that it is actually good to have and take advantage of those qualities after all.



 
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tenniswhiz said:
You ever see this?
I don’t know anything about Borisov or his background.

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It's Pride 10 with a Prime roided Mark Kerr. People were still tapping to mount around that time.
You can catch people with anything if they don't know what to do or if you are an absolute monster.

I think Coleman, Kerr and Mir are 3 guys off the top of my success that have had success with the can opener. Generally they pass or strike off it though.
 
maximus__ said:
It's Pride 10 with a Prime roided Mark Kerr. People were still tapping to mount around that time.
You can catch people with anything if they don't know what to do or if you are an absolute monster.

I think Coleman, Kerr and Mir are 3 guys off the top of my success that have had success with the can opener. Generally they pass or strike off it though.
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GSP too, from memory, successfully used it.
 
Because most of the time it's against the rules? Referring to neck cranks
 
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