Aleksandr Karelin vs Rickson Gracie - PRIMES - Who Wins?

[Adamant]

It's widely accepted that Karelin is the best wrestler in history. The guy was just so far beyond everyone else, it's almost unimaginable. He was a huge hulking behemoth monster which all other wrestlers not only feared, but were outright terrified of. He definitely had the "Mike Tyson" aura about him in wrestling. 887 wins. 2 losses (both by a single point, for breaking the rules). Has never been pinned. Has never been dominated. Countless world championships and gold medals.

Rickson is widely regarded as the GOAT of BJJ. Basically from brown belt on the dude was totally untouchable. Black belt on, forget it. The guy was just so far beyond everyone else he made other black belts look like nothing by comparison. Over 400 wins. No losses (unless you count the "throw" from Tripp as a loss). He definitely had the "Mike Tyson" aura about him in BJJ. Has never been submitted. Has never been dominated.

Karelin - 6'3" / 285lbs / 887-2
Rickson - 5'10" / 185lbs / 410-0

Say you took both men at the peak of their powers, in their primes, and they fought in a PRIDE openweight fight with unlimited rounds, no judges, and 5 minute breaks between each round... who wins? Can Rickson overcome Karelin's massive size and strength advantage? Can he overcome being absolutely ragdolled? What about Karelin once it hits the ground? Can he keep himself out of Rickson's submissions? Who gets tired first? Can Rickson pin Karelin? Can Karelin tap Rickson?

Would it make any difference if Karelin showed up to a Gracie gym in Brazil and demanded to take the Gracie Challenge against Rickson?

We'll say both men are WELL aware of the rules going in, so there are no excuses. Win via KO, TKO, or Submission only.

WHO WINS?

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

Im no expert by any means, but im feeling Kareline on this one. I know BBJ can be a good equalizer against bigger, stronger opponents, but 100 lbs? Thats rough. I dont think rickson, could take Kareline down, so if the fight goes to the ground, kareline is taking it there and he will be on top. If he is in ricksons guard, he could probably find a way to lift rickson and slam him. After all, he is used to ragdoll much larger dudes. Also, i dont think rickson could handle GnP from kareline. If for some reason the fight was standing, i think kareline wins off size, since i assume rickson doesnt train much striking, even if he did it would be hard to strike with someone that much bigger than you.

I like how specific you are with your rules and stuff. interesting idea for sure.

 

[Adamant]

Im no expert by any means, but im feeling Kareline on this one. I know BBJ can be a good equalizer against bigger, stronger opponents, but 100 lbs? Thats rough. I dont think rickson, could take Kareline down, so if the fight goes to the ground, kareline is taking it there and he will be on top. If he is in ricksons guard, he could probably find a way to lift rickson and slam him. After all, he is used to ragdoll much larger dudes. Also, i dont think rickson could handle GnP from kareline. If for some reason the fight was standing, i think kareline wins off size, since i assume rickson doesnt train much striking, even if he did it would be hard to strike with someone that much bigger than you.

I like how specific you are with your rules and stuff. interesting idea for sure.

I like your assessment. It makes me wonder even more now how a Gracie Challenge would go between the two. (The ring, the rules, the crowd, the ref out of it and let them go at it behind closed doors)

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

I like your assessment. It makes me wonder even more now how a Gracie Challenge would go between the two. (The ring, the rules, the crowd, the ref out of it and let them go at it behind closed doors)

Yeah it would be very interesting, and a very sweet win for rickson if he pulled it off!

 

[listrahtes]

Yeah it would be very interesting, and a very sweet win for rickson if he pulled it off!

You really need to read about Rickson and "special rules". He had a "fight" vs Schulz and even then demanded special rules vs. a wrestler who had no idea at all about submission or punching. Schulz was not allowed to slam etc. Basically he was only allowed to pin Rickson until he gassed so Rickson could pull of the sub. <Lmaoo>

The best gracies by far are Renzo and Royce and then some others regarding MMA because especially Renzo had the balls to not demand special rules and engage dangerous opponents like Saku. He lost vs better fighters but was 10x the mma fighter Rickson claimed to be.

A free fight vs. Karelin would have never ever happened with Rickson. Easy as that. He even retired from BJJ competition as soon as the opponents got tougher not to risk his record. Fighters like Gurgel are better everywhere and had more heart than Rickson. Rickson talked shit for a lot of years, about Kerr about Fedor about fellow brazilians and Saku..etc but never once had the balls to step up. His own father called him out on his bullshit

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Dan Severn nearly beat Royce, and possibly let up on him.

Even if he didnt let up, Severn is to Karelin as Royce is to Werdum - a weak, soft, small unskilled version

 

[pankrat]

Reí Zulu gave Rickson all he could handle.
I think a much, much more technical grappler, bigger and stronger man - even if he had not the street fighting experience of Zulu - would be too much for Rickson.

 

[kpoz12]

Karelin....and then massive complaining about the rules after the fact by the Gracies...

 

[BJJ Vale Tudo]

Carley Gracie beats both with ease.

 

[tripleo]

Karelin murders him

 

[Kforcer]

Dan Severn nearly beat Royce, and possibly let up on him.

Even if he didnt let up, Severn is to Karelin as Royce is to Werdum - a weak, soft, small unskilled version

Severn is one of America's most accomplished wrestlers of all-time. And he competed under rule-sets much, much less limited than that which Karelin dominated in.

 

[Kforcer]

It's widely accepted that Karelin is the best wrestler in history.

The best Greco-Roman wrestler in history, sure. Who knows how he would do under freestyle or American scholastic rules. He never had to deal with singles, doubles, trips, leg attacks in general or the same degree of mat wrestling other styles entail.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Severn is one of America's most accomplished wrestlers of all-time. And he competed under rule-sets much, much less limited than that which Karelin dominated in.

the point about Greco is a good one. I feel like you are overblowing Severn’s wrestling accomplishments, though. Not saying he wasnt good, but, there are Americans with multiple Golds at the top level, no?

 

[Kforcer]

the point about Greco is a good one. I feel like you are overblowing Severn’s wrestling accomplishments, though. Not saying he wasnt good, but, there are Americans with multiple Golds at the top level, no?

He's one of the most accomplished American wrestlers there's been. Definitely one of the best American amateurs to never get to the Olympics. When my brother wrestled at Michigan State University, Severn was assistant coach. The head coach, Phil Parker, was a former NCAA champion. An NCAA champ is nothing to sneeze at. However, a local Olympic medalist, Don Behm, commented that Phil Parker undermined himself by making Severn his assistant because how much Severn's accomplishments dwarfed his own.

Severn was a highly, highly decorated wrestler. Not just a good wrestler, but certainly a great one, definitely one of America's most decorated. And yes, America is a perennial international wrestling powerhouse that has produced tons of Olympic gold medalists. But even having never made the Olympic team, Severn's accomplishments standout.

 

[Hotora86]

Gee, I wonder what would happen if a dominant Gracie challenged a legend from another grappling sport. Say, Judo for example... oh wait.

 

[BJJ Vale Tudo]

Carley took Carlson's spot away from him, he would have no problem with judo chumps. Carley in his prime was the most dominant Gracie ever.

 

[YourBoss]

Karelin by murder. The guy is like 10 times stronger. would look somewhat like this

 

[PrideUltimate]

I like this Mike Tyson aura thing. You don't even sound like hyping them to the gillies.