Economy Industrial High Tech (Redux)

[Deorum]

That and their factory in Wisconsin is a great step to removing China from fab and being able to glean secrets from the big four.
I guess seeing how Broadcom is Singapore based we need to make sure they know where’d their hum read is buttered.
Would’ve interesting to create joint schooling and technical training to further integrate the country’s and systems. I’m not sure I have a good sneer for better cooperation

TSMC spreading shop into the US puts me at considerably more ease about Intel's recent faltering on process technology. Any portion of manufacturing they end up outsourcing isn't even going to leave the city - nevermind state or country - for very long. They are the OG of the industry and will ultimately recover on the advanced manufacturing front, but they probably won't be on the absolute cutting edge again for a few years.

 

[ElKarlo]

TSMC spreading shop into the US puts me at considerably more ease about Intel's recent faltering on process technology. Any manufacturing they end up outsourcing isn't even going to leave the city - nevermind state or country - for very long. They are the OG of the industry and will ultimately recovery on the advanced manufacturing front, but they probably won't be on the absolute cutting edge again for a few years.

True despite intel being run by mba types still has tons of IP and yes they want it to stay close by

btw Qualcomm has great modems and even intel with all their spending and abilities couldn’t make one to match Qualcomm’s. Which shows that even with talent it doesn’t mean you automatically get results
Just wow Qualcomm didn’t play the % of product sold as part of their fee. A brilliant company that plays too close to the edge imho
Plus they also got cock blocked by an angry China over their Dutch acquisition

 

[Deorum]

Where the hell is @superking?!

True despite intel being run by mba types still has tons of IP and yes they want it to stay close by

btw Qualcomm has great modems and even intel with all their spending and abilities couldn’t make one to match Qualcomm’s. Which shows that even with talent it doesn’t mean you automatically get results. Just wow Qualcomm didn’t play the % of product sold as part of their fee. A brilliant company that plays too close to the edge imho. Plus they also got cock blocked by an angry China over their Dutch acquisition

Qualcomm is such a bad motherfucker on the engineering front. The only thing that would make it a greater firm would be if it wasn't fabless and manufactured its own chips, but they've always been a lean operation with a central focus on design. Some of the headlines Qualcomm has been involved with the last couple years have made me laugh out loud.

Apple Said Qualcomm’s Tech Was No Good. But In Private Communications, It Was "The Best."

During the roughly two years Apple was locked in a legal battle with one of its suppliers, Qualcomm, the iPhone maker publicly argued that the chipmaker’s technology was worthless. But according to an internal Apple memo showed during the trial this week between the two tech companies, Apple’s hardware executives used words like “the best” to describe Qualcomm’s engineering. Another Apple memo described Qualcomm as having a “unique patent share” and “significant holdings.”



Remember the big Huawei scare?

How The Snapdragon X50, World’s First 5G Modem, Puts Qualcomm Ahead Of The Curve

Because of Qualcomm’s CDMA heritage and 4G expertise, it only seems natural that the company would also want to have a leading place in 5G. This is further exemplified by their exhaustive R&D in 5G as well as industry wide-partnerships with operators, infrastructure vendors and device makers.

The Snapdragon X50 5G modem is the first and only 5G modem in existence. Qualcomm says the Snapdragon X50 5G modem is capable of download speeds of up to 5 Gbps which is five times (5x) faster than the fastest 4G modem, which also happens to be a Qualcomm modem, the Snapdragon X16. To attain speeds of up to 5 Gbps, the X50 must do things like adaptive beam-forming and beam tracking for when the device isn’t in direct line of sight.

*Chills*

 

[superpunch]

Of course we should have a national investment bank for insfrastructure and R&D. Just like Bell Labs, the foundation of all modern American technology industries, used to be. And just like we used to spend trillions on building things like new highways.

Of course we should.

There's simply no money to do that though. All the money that could be used for that is spent on healthcare, 20% of our economy. The OECD average is 8.5%.

And of course if we don't do that, we won't develop any new tech industries and the ones we do have will become obsolete like all tech eventually does.

But we won't do that. The graft is too much, and the corruption is too deep seated.

 

[superpunch]

TSMC spreading shop into the US puts me at considerably more ease about Intel's recent faltering on process technology. Any portion of manufacturing they end up outsourcing isn't even going to leave the city - nevermind state or country - for very long. They are the OG of the industry and will ultimately recover on the advanced manufacturing front, but they probably won't be on the absolute cutting edge again for a few years.

Why would you expect a company that doesn't get national R&D to maintain the cutting edge? We have semiconductor industries, and other high tech industries, because of Bell Labs, which doesn't exist anymore. We've been coasting off the creations of Bell Labs since the 1950s while other countries were too small (France, the UK, etc.) or too poor (the USSR) to create similar labs after we shut them down. That's obviously not the case anymore.

The future is AI, emerging space propulsion, etc. And those future industries are going to be founded on technology that we can't conceive of today. Things like cold fusion and warp drives. They will require much more investment than a Google, or a Space X, can or is willing to do, and in obscure areas too risky for private investment. We need national labs funded by national R&D if we want to be the country that discovers those technologies.

 

[Deorum]

Why would you expect a company that doesn't get national R&D to maintain the cutting edge?

Why would I expect INTEL to remain on the cutting edge of process technology? Christ dude, you just gave me a severe migraine and I'm not even kidding. It struck like a fucking thunderclap and I can't even think straight now (no pun). Anyhow, thank you for your input.

 

[superpunch]

Why would I expect INTEL to remain on the cutting edge of process technology? Christ dude, you just gave me a severe migraine and I'm not even kidding. It struck like a fucking thunder clap and I can't even think straight now (no pun). Anyhow, thank you for your input.

We got the transistor from Bell Labs, not General Electric. Worrying about semiconductors is missing the forest for the trees, like being #1 in vacuum tube tech in the 1960s. What comes after semiconductors, and why/ how would Intel be at the forefront?

 

[Deorum]

We need national labs funded by national R&D if we want to be the country that discovers those technologies.

The US has a network of over 40 national laboratories but there's a reason the likes of Los Alamos, Sandia, JPL, Lincoln, LLNL, LBNL, SLAC and others publish so little openly available academic research (military applications, obviously). These are government funded labs with department sponsors but they're managed by independent non-profit 'contractors'. Not the likes of Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop Grumman and such but rather MIT, Caltech, Stanford, et al. who just so happen to be the top research universities in the United States (and world) aside from Harvard, which has its own collaborations with another FFRDC managing contractor in Massachusetts known as the MITRE Corporation.

 

[ElKarlo]

Where the hell is @superking?!


Qualcomm is such a bad motherfucker on the engineering front. The only thing that would make it a greater firm would be if it wasn't fabless and manufactured its own chips, but they've always been a lean operation with a central focus on design. Some of the headlines Qualcomm has been involved with the last couple years have made me laugh out loud.

Apple Said Qualcomm’s Tech Was No Good. But In Private Communications, It Was "The Best."

During the roughly two years Apple was locked in a legal battle with one of its suppliers, Qualcomm, the iPhone maker publicly argued that the chipmaker’s technology was worthless. But according to an internal Apple memo showed during the trial this week between the two tech companies, Apple’s hardware executives used words like “the best” to describe Qualcomm’s engineering. Another Apple memo described Qualcomm as having a “unique patent share” and “significant holdings.”



Remember the big Huawei scare?

How The Snapdragon X50, World’s First 5G Modem, Puts Qualcomm Ahead Of The Curve

Because of Qualcomm’s CDMA heritage and 4G expertise, it only seems natural that the company would also want to have a leading place in 5G. This is further exemplified by their exhaustive R&D in 5G as well as industry wide-partnerships with operators, infrastructure vendors and device makers.

The Snapdragon X50 5G modem is the first and only 5G modem in existence. Qualcomm says the Snapdragon X50 5G modem is capable of download speeds of up to 5 Gbps which is five times (5x) faster than the fastest 4G modem, which also happens to be a Qualcomm modem, the Snapdragon X16. To attain speeds of up to 5 Gbps, the X50 must do things like adaptive beam-forming and beam tracking for when the device isn’t in direct line of sight.

*Chills*

Qualcomm had the snapdragon and intel had the whatever. Apple needed to throttle the snapdragon due to intels modem being junk in the ATT iPhone.
Qualcomm is brilliant but picks too many fights and doesn’t do any in house manufacturering which is good for being lean but can be bad for leaking IP

 

[Deorum]

Just making sure I got this tag right...

Where the hell is @superking?!

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Why would you expect a company that doesn't get national R&D to maintain the cutting edge? We have semiconductor industries, and other high tech industries, because of Bell Labs, which doesn't exist anymore. We've been coasting off the creations of Bell Labs since the 1950s while other countries were too small (France, the UK, etc.) or too poor (the USSR) to create similar labs after we shut them down. That's obviously not the case anymore.

The future is AI, emerging space propulsion, etc. And those future industries are going to be founded on technology that we can't conceive of today. Things like cold fusion and warp drives. They will require much more investment than a Google, or a Space X, can or is willing to do, and in obscure areas too risky for private investment. We need national labs funded by national R&D if we want to be the country that discovers those technologies.

Intel's revenue up to 9/30/2020 was almost $80 billion.

Intel is the national lab for chips, Intel doesn't need the government. The government, indeed America, needs Intel.

 

[superpunch]

Intel's revenue up to 9/30/2020 was almost $80 billion.

Intel is the national lab for chips, Intel doesn't need the government. The government, indeed America, needs Intel.

Hey man, I'm just saying that America's been playing the game half retarded for a long time because the world chess board has been 100% retarded. Our system has insane inefficiencies on blowing 20% of our economy every year into a black hole in health care, our infrastructure crumbling, just pretended space doesn't exist, etc. The world chess board is heating up into a real competitive game again. Ideology about free market and platitudes and half assed shit and dumbassery isn't gonna win the game anymore.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Yes, and @John Black alluded to this in another thread as well. I'm entirely opposed to suggestions that the US stop selling China IC's and would sell them as many chips as they can possibly consume. If the US stopped selling chips to China, it would cut revenue by at least 50% and cost tens of thousands of high skill, high wage jobs stateside.

I'm far less against choking off the means to produce them and keeping the CCP in a perpetual state of dependence though. The semiconductor materials and machinery firms don't represent remotely the same level of collateral damage the chipmakers do because a majority of their client base are the chipmakers. China has been chasing a domestic industry of their own for quite a while regardless though.

I think it was in Forbes that I read, in so many words, that Third Point hedge fund had been told to get fucked in their proposal to split Intel's design and manufacturing operations.

Most of the currently fabless companies did that decades ago and that manufacturing never came back. We can not afford to let Intel do that, and I'm glad that that hedge fund proposal was shot down.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Hey man, I'm just saying that America's been playing the game half retarded for a long time because the world chess board has been 100% retarded. Our system has insane inefficiencies on blowing 20% of our economy every year into a black hole in health care, our infrastructure crumbling, just pretended space doesn't exist, etc. The world chess board is heating up into a real competitive game again. Ideology about free market and platitudes and half assed shit and dumbassery isn't gonna win the game anymore.

I hear ya, and in some ways you are right.

Along with CHIPS as mentioned in the OP, there is also the American Foundries Act; a bipartisan bill introduced back in June, I believe.

The American Foundries Act includes something like $5 billion for defense grants and another $5 billion in grants for R&D.

Intel is, no doubt, going to benefit, but $5 billion is paltry compared to their almost $80 billion (9/30/19 - 9/30/20) yearly revenue.

 

[Deorum]

I hear ya, and in some ways you are right.

I think @superpunch has his heart in the right place.

Intel's revenue up to 9/30/2020 was almost $80 billion.

Intel is the national lab for chips, Intel doesn't need the government. The government, indeed America, needs Intel.

This was always one of my favorite graphics (reposting for others), and it really is incredible how invaluable of a corporation they've been for the United States over the last 50 years, the industrial sector in particular.

None of this exists here without Intel.

lmao @ people crying over them getting tax breaks.

Get The Fuck Out.

 

[Deorum]

Qualcomm had the snapdragon and intel had the whatever. Apple needed to throttle the snapdragon due to intels modem being junk in the ATT iPhone.
Qualcomm is brilliant but picks too many fights and doesn’t do any in house manufacturering which is good for being lean but can be bad for leaking IP

DEAD. It's just not part of their core business and one of the former CEO's botched the opportunity to make a serious effort. Intel is centered around designing and manufacturing µP's for personal computers and enterprise-grade industrial hardware. They got lazy and have fallen off the horse for a second now - most notably in process technology - but it's sort of understandable when you invent the world's first commercial microprocessor and hold down over 90%+ share of the PC and Data Center markets for several consecutive decades. And yeah, Qualcomm is catty as hell. It's like they feel like less of a man for being fabless.

 

[Rocco Siffredi]

CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS! CHIPS!

 

[ElKarlo]

DEAD. It's just not part of their core business and one of the former CEO's botched the opportunity to make a serious effort. Intel is centered around designing and manufacturing µP's for personal computers and enterprise-grade industrial hardware. They got lazy and have fallen off the horse for a second now - most notably in process technology - but it's sort of understandable when you invent the world's first commercial microprocessor and hold down over 90%+ share of the PC and Data Center markets for several consecutive decades. And yeah, Qualcomm is catty as hell. It's like they feel like less of a man for being fabless.

They wasted billions on that. Sold the rights to apple for almost nothing. Intel got lazy and has been run my bean counters which is why they are having their lunch eaten by AMD.
Like Boeing, intel needs a full leadership shakeup to stay the big guy

 

[Deorum]

They wasted billions on that. Sold the rights to apple for almost nothing. Intel got lazy and has been run my bean counters which is why they are having their lunch eaten by AMD.
Like Boeing, intel needs a full leadership shakeup to stay the big guy

That is a perfect comparison, especially considering Boeing is the biggest player in another indispensable American manufacturing industry and actually the country's largest exporter. They're both "too big to fail" although it isn't that drastic. The biggest issue for both has been the lack of engineering experience at an executive level, which wasn't the case at the turn of the century (also when Intel stock peaked).

 

[ElKarlo]

That is a perfect comparison, especially considering Boeing is the biggest player in another indispensable American manufacturing industry, and actually the country's largest exporter. They're both "too big to fail" although it isn't that drastic. The biggest issue for both has been the lack of engineering experience at an executive level, which wasn't the case at the turn of the century (also when Intel stock peaked).

Yep. They both got lazy and worried about stock prices and what was cool. I got burned by Boeing I sold all my shares after the second max crash. Was my biggest holding. Focusing on finances is bad at a certain point. Especially when you’re outsourcing programming to mediocre Indian programmers for flight control.
intel is kinda like big tobacco, a large profitable company with a shrinking main business.
Wonder why they haven’t done any acquisitions? The world has been ok with major buy outs and they could use the new blood like IBM got with buying red hat.