How much progress can you make by training with beginners in jiu jitsu ?

[Laza cds mma]

I heard Eddie Bravo say in one of Joe Rogan's podcasts that the best way to improve your jiu jitsu offense is to train with beginners , because you can basically just drill finishes on them , i heard the same thing from Jocko Willink , Roger Gracie said something similiar, he only trains with his students while his oponents have world class training partners , what do you guys think ?

 

[shunyata]

I heard Eddie Bravo say in one of Joe Rogan's podcasts that the best way to improve your jiu jitsu offense is to train with beginners , because you can basically just drill finishes on them , i heard the same thing from Jocko Willink , Roger Gracie said something similiar, he only trains with his students while his oponents have world class training partners , what do you guys think ?

Training with people who are not on your level gives you room to work on offense. Training with people on an even level with you will often favor and incentivize getting better in the scrambles and transitions. Training with people on a higher level than you will generally help you work on your defense.

All of it is valuable.

 

[yokerclown]

it can be very big benefit for you, when training with begginers they can do some shitty moves that you would never except from a man and also you can drill good defence/offence on them, i am only blue belt yet but i drill with beginers my very weak sides without any strength just 100% technique

 

[Daz2300]

Not exactly the same topic but i've always found teaching beginners and fundamentals classes really helped my own game. It forced me to better understand what i was doing during a given technique to be able to explain it and makes by study up what versions different people showed often making connections for me i wouldn't have found otherwise.

 

[dimmyfinster]

I heard Eddie Bravo say in one of Joe Rogan's podcasts that the best way to improve your jiu jitsu offense is to train with beginners , because you can basically just drill finishes on them , i heard the same thing from Jocko Willink , Roger Gracie said something similiar, he only trains with his students while his oponents have world class training partners , what do you guys think ?

Mostly, but not 100% true for Roger. There are a few world level GB BB in England - Braulio and Charles Negromonte - and there is footage of them training with Roger. I would imagine Victor estima as well


A fourth degree BB once told me that when he learns a new technique, he tries it out on a brand new white belt.

 

[CFGroup]

Not exactly the same topic but i've always found teaching beginners and fundamentals classes really helped my own game. It forced me to better understand what i was doing during a given technique to be able to explain it and makes by study up what versions different people showed often making connections for me i wouldn't have found otherwise.

I second that!

Breaking down throws to there fundamentals is always something I'd done on my own. Building isolation Uchikomi drills was a leftover from TKD forms and two steps. Then when I got the nod, condensing them for beginners who would move their right foot when you said "step with your left foot" 3 times made me re examine my own structures and movements and then how to communicate them in a way that each unique student could understand.

I'm the result of three instructors inputs, the guys I went out of my way to always be in their classes and pester them after for details and purpose, Randori with and take Ukemi to demonstrate in class. One from a 60's national title Judo, Kyokushin, Tomiki Aikido, one whose an emergency room trauma surgeon, from a semi pro ballroom dance-I know sounds weird, but Chris's precision is impeccable-background, devotion to travel nationally since the early 80's and train with all the high level Americans and visiting foreign instructors, and finally an old US army Nam combat Vet who cross trains in Tai Chi and Ba Gua(not that Jake Mace garbage posted a while ago in the striking forum) who taught me Tai Chi when I had to stay off the mat competitively for a year from destroying my elbow.

13 years of absorbing as much as possible from those three sources and condensing all of that down to be able to communicate it verbally and physically to people in their first months was a introspective re examination of my foundation of technique(yeah, four hour lockdown solo training sessions has gotten me all mystical and shit).

Maybe when this is all over I'll ask to teach the new students Ukemi to keep our retention rate higher at my new club. It still feels a little one upmanship being older but in much better shape than the club owner.

 

[winterbike]

It can be good if you're smart about it. Like... if you keep smashing them as fast as possible you might stall at some point. If you go for different things you'll see progress. The human brain loves puzzles, structure your BJJ training to offer it some.

 

[CI]

i find develop my jits more with more white belts I roll with. They r vital for my improvement. It allows me the time to think through new techniques I want to try.

To answer your question: alot of progress can be made.

The only time I would think its a waste is if I would use my same old tricks. This is mistake on my part personally. I dont improve, and the white belt doesnt have a chance to work on their skills.

 

[EndlessCritic]

There is value to training with people of all levels. But yes, certainly for developing your offence, you need to attempt techniques on white belts firs.t

 

[cugnao]

Training smartly with every level of partners.
Training with positionnal sparring is really good too

 

[nefti]

I would say that having different body types is more important

 

[Harry Flannagan]

I heard Eddie Bravo say in one of Joe Rogan's podcasts that the best way to improve your jiu jitsu offense is to train with beginners , because you can basically just drill finishes on them , i heard the same thing from Jocko Willink , Roger Gracie said something similiar, he only trains with his students while his oponents have world class training partners , what do you guys think ?

I read somewhere that training with lower belts can help higher with experimenting with new techniques. For me personally, I welcome training with anyone because there's always room to improve.

 

[yetanother]

Very little. People who below good blue belt have garbage reactions so you don't get the situations you would have against good/elite opponents.

 

[Zankou]

Bravo is completely right. Whites and blues are an invaluable opportunity to run new moves and transitions at a machine gun pace. Usually you want to work a balance between wrecking them and giving some pointers and opportunities to them, so it’s not just pure decimation. But higher belt matches often end in bitter back and forth battles that don’t give you the chance to learn new moves and transitions. Lower belts are great for that.

 

[nefti]

Bravo is completely right. Whites and blues are an invaluable opportunity to run new moves and transitions at a machine gun pace. Usually you want to work a balance between wrecking them and giving some pointers and opportunities to them, so it’s not just pure decimation. But higher belt matches often end in bitter back and forth battles that don’t give you the chance to learn new moves and transitions. Lower belts are great for that.

I mean leta be honest here if you are brown/black how much "new stuff" goes in to your "A" game? Yes im adding the dds stuff but thats an uncommon thing. You have youe game and you want to sharpen it. Fooling around with lower belts is fun and all but its a different thing than actual training with same/higher belts.

They both have their uses. In a perfect world you would have various belt lvls of divfferent body types.

 

[Thrawn33]

Training with people who are not on your level gives you room to work on offense. Training with people on an even level with you will often favor and incentivize getting better in the scrambles and transitions. Training with people on a higher level than you will generally help you work on your defense.

All of it is valuable.

Yup.

Less skilled than you for new stuff
Peers to polish your game
Higher skilled than you for defense/survival

 

[freakroor]

it depends if you are a beginner as well. I dont like beginners training with beginners too much, If you are an upper belt then sure you can get a lot out of smashing athletic white belts.

 

[Thrawn33]

it depends if you are a beginner as well. I dont like beginners training with beginners too much, If you are an upper belt then sure you can get a lot out of smashing athletic white belts.

Two very new WBs rolling/randori is a recipe for disaster.

 

[kintana]

Ask me in 3 months, I came from a gym with a few european black and brown belt champs to a gym now with white belts and 2 blue belts. I am a brown belt so I will find out.

I switched countries for work which is why I left.

 

[RemyR]

I mean you can make technical improvements but I highly recommend those tough rolls against more technical or higher weight classes as well. Training with lower belts only can get someone complacent.

it’s damn near a proven fact in every sport that training partners pushing each other to improve will get results. I know I tend to get better when I consistently get rough rolls in