History repeats: Ngannou is also beating mostly high mileage fighters

[Striker Fox]

By far Ngannou's best win is against a 39 year old Stipe coming off 3 wars with 40+ year old DC.

 

[Claude]

Oh I wasn’t trying to debate you. Just mock you and the other thousand threads on here that downplay resumes for every fighter.

That's what a straw man fallacy is, lol.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Nice to see everyone check TS as if there's an alternative.

 

[markg171]

Yeah, why aren't they beating 42 year olds like Coleman????

 

[Claude]

No. I really didn't. The headline was enough. Did you not read the rest of what you didn't make bigger?

That's your mistake.

And I already adressed your other point in my other posts. I'm not blaming Ngannou.

 

[kenetics]

Just like Stipe, Ngannou is taking advantage of a wore down, high mileage division. Only exceptions being Curtis Blaydes and Jairzinho Rozenstruik.

Number of fights and years active at the time they fought:

Arlovski: 18 years active, 39 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 10 fights

Overeem: 18 years active, 59 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 11 fights,

Cain: 13 years active, 16 fights,
Ngannou: 6 years active, 15 fights

JDS: 13 years active, 26 fights
Ngannou: 6 years active, 16 fights

Stipe: 11 years active, 23 fights
Ngannou: 7 years active, 18 fights


Overall:

-71% of Ngannou's top ranked opponents had been fighting for 11 years or more.
-57% of his top opponents had been fighting for 13 years or more.
-The average mileage of his top ranked opponents is: 12 years active and 26 fights.

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Bottom line:

Looks like the best way to succeed at HW is to be young and fresh (fightwise) and fight mostly high mileage fighters, as Stipe and Francis have shown.

Ngannou fought even more diminished versions of Arlovski, Overeem and JDS than Sipe did. Also Francis will fight yet another high mileage fighter next, whether it's Jones or Lewis. The HW division has failed to produce fresh talent for many years.

In fights, timing is key.

"It's not WHO you beat that matters, it's WHEN you beat them".

Yup. I agree. That's was stipe issue too .

 

[sdpdude9]

That's what a straw man fallacy is, lol.

Nah, it’s just mocking you.

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

Scoop for better talent around the world.

Forget about the rankings. The rankings are limited to the UFC/Bellator. They're useless when assessing talent world wide.

MMA doesn't have competitive architecture. It doesn't have a competitive system like the olympics, in which athletes around the world compete with each other in order to be an olympian. There's not a competitive system that allows us to know who the best are. For that reason, they have to keep an eye on every prospect of every decent MMA org. around the world. It's ridiculous guys like Overeem and Arlovski could still be among the best HW's in the world not long ago. These dudes aren't doing their homeworks. They're settling for entertaining fighters. And fans buy this idea that they're watching the absolute best.

Here's the problem: I don't think the UFC cares about having the best, nor they need them. They can hype any good fighter as the best. I mean they hyped Brock as the best and everybody bought it. Even the rankings. The UFC only needs to have entertaining fighters. That's how they make their money. Their marketing will ensure to make people believe they're watching the best.

I understand your point of view.

But you honestly believe the UFC don't have most of the best fighters in MMA in their organization? I think they are scouting the best they can and I feel like most of the best fighters who are out there, there goal is to fight in the UFC. I honestly believe they have almost all the best guys you can find out there in the world. Fighters like Adesanya, Khabib, Ngannou, Zhang, Nunes to name a few are the best of the best out there that are involved in this sport.

 

[Your Account]

Just like Stipe, Ngannou is taking advantage of a wore down, high mileage division. Only exceptions being Curtis Blaydes and Jairzinho Rozenstruik.

Number of fights and years active at the time they fought:

Arlovski: 18 years active, 39 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 10 fights

Overeem: 18 years active, 59 fights
Ngannou: 4 years active, 11 fights,

Cain: 13 years active, 16 fights,
Ngannou: 6 years active, 15 fights

JDS: 13 years active, 26 fights
Ngannou: 6 years active, 16 fights

Stipe: 11 years active, 23 fights
Ngannou: 7 years active, 18 fights


Overall:

-71% of Ngannou's top ranked opponents had been fighting for 11 years or more.
-57% of his top opponents had been fighting for 13 years or more.
-The average mileage of his top ranked opponents is: 12 years active and 26 fights.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line:

Looks like the best way to succeed at HW is to be young and fresh (fightwise) and fight mostly high mileage fighters, as Stipe and Francis have shown.

Ngannou fought even more diminished versions of Arlovski, Overeem and JDS than Sipe did. Also Francis will fight yet another high mileage fighter next, whether it's Jones or Lewis. The HW division has failed to produce fresh talent for many years.

In fights, timing is key.

"It's not WHO you beat that matters, it's WHEN you beat them".

who are you

 

[Claude]

It's actually a pretty good quality thread that just lays down the facts. I don't get the "hater vibe" that other people seem to get from TS. The one part of the story that's missing is the context of the mileage. Obviously two grueling fights against DC leads to more mileage than a squash match against Malbodobonado. Total fight time and amount of KO losses and/or times a fighter has been knocked down would be good stats to get a more accurate look on this.

One or two big wars can really change a fighter forever. Cain vs. JDS 2 and 3 is the most obvious example of this. This might be a bit harder to quantify.



It's even more ridiculous because outside of the USA nobody wants to play American football. And only a few other countries are really into basketball.

Exactly.

Some americans think everybody wants what they want.

 

[Claude]

When was the last time frame in which 3 or more great HW propects rose or entered the ranks?

My guess is around the time Brock came in

Gonzaga, Werdum, Brock, Vera, JDS, Cain were all intriguing prospects that had entered the top within the same 2yrs or so I think

Yup. That was over a decade ago.

 

[ShorterThanLeprechauns]

As other have pointed out he’s doing much better than Stipe, who aside from Ngannou, faced a bunch of guys way past their prime.

With Blaydes already on his resume, as long as he defeats Gane his resume will already eclipse Stipe’s

 

[Minnja]

When was the last time frame in which 3 or more great HW propects rose or entered the ranks?

My guess is around the time Brock came in

Gonzaga, Werdum, Brock, Vera, JDS, Cain were all intriguing prospects that had entered the top within the same 2yrs or so I think

Back when JDS, Cain and Carwin were rising the ranks was a great time for HW. Throw in Lesnar and some of the vets it was a good division. Even Stipe was not too far off from when those three were dominating. It really looked like it was going to be another great time for HW and it was until about 3-4 years ago when no young guys replaced that trio

 

[Claude]

Nah, it’s just mocking you.

I'm pretty sure I've never said anything remotely close to "nobody has ever beaten anybody good".

You're mocking your own exaggerated logic. That's what a straw man fallacy is, lol.

 

[Claude]

I understand your point of view.

But you honestly believe the UFC don't have most of the best fighters in MMA in their organization? I think they are scouting the best they can and I feel like most of the best fighters who are out there, there goal is to fight in the UFC. I honestly believe they have almost all the best guys you can find out there in the world. Fighters like Adesanya, Khabib, Ngannou, Zhang, Nunes to name a few are the best of the best out there that are involved in this sport.

I think they have some very good fighters.

The best? There's just no basis to say such thing. There isn't MMA architecture in MMA to figure out who the best are, and most prospects around the world won't make it to the UFC, either becasue they won't get the call, or because they don't want to. Mainly the first option.

 

[tehMoose]

I'm shocked to see that some people were unaware of this

 

[DesiredUserName]

Well, heavyweights are generally older because it takes them longer to grow that big.

 

[sdpdude9]

I'm pretty sure I've never said anything remotely close to "nobody has ever beaten anybody good".

You're mocking your own exaggerated logic. That's what a straw man fallacy is, lol.

Still not getting it? I’m mocking your dime a dozen “this fighter’s resume is weak” thread. I’m not engaging in a debate. This kinda shit gets tossed around daily about every fighter so sorry I don’t take your unoriginal thread seriously.

 

[Claude]

Nice to see everyone check TS as if there's an alternative.

That would be a good argument if I was blaming Ngannou, but I'm not. I didn't blame Stipe either.

This thread speaks more about the HW division and the UFC than Ngannou.

 

[tehMoose]

I understand your point of view.

But you honestly believe the UFC don't have most of the best fighters in MMA in their organization? I think they are scouting the best they can and I feel like most of the best fighters who are out there, there goal is to fight in the UFC. I honestly believe they have almost all the best guys you can find out there in the world. Fighters like Adesanya, Khabib, Ngannou, Zhang, Nunes to name a few are the best of the best out there that are involved in this sport.

Is this you, Dana?

LMAO at thinking that UFC has almost all the best fighters in the world.