Today I felt the power of PEDs in BJJ

[wufabufa]

No, I’m just more informed and experienced than you. Lol.

Your reaction and lil attempt at condescension tells me I read you correctly. What’s hilarious about people like you is 9/10 you’re not as “technical” as you think you are.

Lol, playing make-believe is fun. Sorry I stirred your Cheerios the wrong way. It seems like you really need the last word to prove whatever the fuck your point is right here. So I think you should have it. This hasn't gone well for you, so consider it charity and be thankful.

If you had actually read my initial post you'd realize that I agree with those saying that strength is important at the highest level of sports. But instead you glossed over it and started throwing shade. I was only explaining to hannibal that being super strong in the NFL isn't surprising.....because nearly everyone is super strong(echoing his sentiment), it's a basic requirement to be successful in that sport. Just like in BJJ at the very highest level. With skill being equal, strength and conditioning are going to decide who wins.

 

[jack36767]

Lol, playing make-believe is fun. Sorry I stirred your Cheerios the wrong way. It seems like you really need the last word to prove whatever the fuck your point is right here. So I think you should have it. This hasn't gone well for you, so consider it charity and be thankful.

If you had actually read my initial post you'd realize that I agree with those saying that strength is important at the highest level of sports. But instead you glossed over it and started throwing shade. I was only explaining to hannibal that being super strong in the NFL isn't surprising.....because nearly everyone is super strong(echoing his sentiment), it's a basic requirement to be successful in that sport. Just like in BJJ at the very highest level. With skill being equal, strength and conditioning are going to decide who wins.

Lol I’d have started with that before your lil attempt at condescension. The way you responded reinforced my point

 

[wufabufa]

Lol I’d have started with that before your lil attempt at condescension. The way you responded reinforced my point

It was clearly stated.

Don't blame me for things devolving into the shit flinging contest that you started. Blame your 1st grade reading comprehension. Seems like you're obsessed with me at this point.

 

[jack36767]

It was clearly stated.

Don't blame me for things devolving into the shit flinging contest that you started. Blame your 1st grade reading comprehension. Seems like you're obsessed with me at this point.

I’d bet you’d tell me I’m really strong after I pulled guard and submitted you from guard. You tried to call me a a dumb monkey and to go color for expressing the level of your ignorance. Not obsessed. Just amused at the “technique hipster” routine

 

[rmongler]

Developing potential into high level athleticism requires intelligent 'whole life' conditioning methodology that most DYEL plebaeans are not capable of.

Highly profitable team sports, and or endeavors sponsored by sovereign rulers, can often have specialists to personally supervise many details - the competitor themselves often better understood as a pseudopod extended out from a larger organism - but this is often not the case in many combat sports, which tend to be far more personal endeavors. It's not a coincidence that many of the best conditioned fighters - like GSP - are often also amongst the most strategically minded fighters - like GSP.

Though even in the former case, there is only so far you can lead any one figure by the hand; ones who can help themselves, are also the ones that can get the most benefit out of help; look at the worlds strongest men, and they're all experts in their own training. The best engineer isn't a rando with a reference book and a phone line to a consultant, but a man who actually understands the machine he is working with.

 

[yetanother]

didnt he cheat though? or is that rumours. I heard he took steriods.

Haven't heard any rumours he ever cheated at the adcc. Even if you assume he took roids that's a traditional part of adcc and fully allowed.

 

[mataleaos]

I am sure in my 10+ years of jiu jitsu I have gone against guys that used PEDs.

Today, o man today I really saw the difference they make. I was working abroad in a country with high level grappling for 3 months. So I was training consistently with good jiu jitsu players.

Now I go back home to my old gym in my home country. And I see one of my old sparring partners a blackbelt who is good. He will go to mundials or AJP pro tours and he will do okay. He won't medal in the adult divisions but masters divisions he reaches the podiums on occasion but not consistent.

So when we go up against each other we are somewhat even. One of those situations because you know each other's game you can win. I would say I submit him 30% of the time before the PEDs.

Here come the PEDs, apparently before I left he started a PED cycle. I do not know what but he did but he admitted it. He is now jacked and shredded. Now I have gone against guys who I thought were on PEDs before and depending on their technique I can man handle them, fight evenly or they destroy me.

I am a brown belt and today I felt like a blue belt 3 stripes. He pulls guard a lot and when I felt the guard pull, it was like I was attached to a rope with a weighted bag that was kicked down off the roof and i was falling. His armbar was so much tighter, pressure passing heavier. The one thing that shocked me the most was his squeeze from guard(NO GI), it was like a snake coiling around.

I got my ass kicked!!

His technique i would say was the same but everything else about him was just better. He made mistakes so I know his technique did not really improve. But his speed and strength was other world in just 3-4 months.

If I had to put on a scale his improvement i would say it felt like he got 3 belts better.

If he was a white before was now a purple/brown if you will.

I always knew PEDs made you better but now I can honestly say it took a hobbyist blackbelt to maybe a much higher level.

great job describing something that’s hard to describe. I have rolled with a few guys in gear and it’s pretty obvious. You’re right that they damn near feel like different human beings. Even when you make strong grips on their limbs in no-gi, it literally feels like their muscles are made out of elevator cables or something other than regular muscle.

I’m sure there are types of PEDs that don’t cause this type of difference in feel. But there are definitely some PEDs that cause it.

When you said their guard felt like being tied down by a rope to a giant bag? That resonated deeply.

One time I tried to leg drag pass a heavyweight that was open about his heavy testosterone use. I’m not a small guy, but when I hit the drag, I went into it with total commitment and almost threw myself into the floor. He didn’t move at all.

I can’t say I never considered a cycle. But I was scared my body wouldn’t go back to producing natural testosterone.

 

[CI]

lol Yep. Strength is a part of sports. I don’t follow NFL much, but you don’t hear people complaining about athletes being stronger.... but in Bjj or even mma when a guy wins based on size, power, or strength you will here people bitch and moan. At the end of the day, all that shot matters and it’s up to you to maximize your potential so you don’t have a disadvantage against someone or you can turn it into your strength. Strength is a skill... IMO.

got to have it all. there is a reason why gordon ryan uses PEDs. Probably has the best coach, but with PEDs hes unstoppable.

 

[aus101]

It massively helps with recovery which is so taxing in bjj so yeah it's a huge advantage. You could blast, train bjj and perform a bunch of s and c whereas a natty will be broken and beaten down by that.

As a hobbyist though I wouldn't worry, just train bjj and lift as you please. If you feel out muscled against the average person your weight or don't lift regularly I'd say increase the lifting but random guys hopping on the roids shouldn't cause you too much concern. They're only that strong while they are on.

 

[kintana]

After being back for several days and seeing how this guy rolls against other guys and me the improvement is clear.

Since he is honest about using, he talks about how much better he feels and how training is becoming easier. I will say it does seem his hitting the weights more.

He did a comp recently both gi and no gi. And it was crazy his opponent shot a double leg, my friend sprawled, improved his position and literally picked the other guy up Karelin lift style after that he just dominated. He had 7 matches and fought less than 16 mins total on his way to gold. 6 submissions in the open master and adult division.

In all fairness he is trying to give pro jiu jitsu 1 last shot so I mean if others are going to cheat why not him.

 

[sb413197]

great job describing something that’s hard to describe. I have rolled with a few guys in gear and it’s pretty obvious. You’re right that they damn near feel like different human beings. Even when you make strong grips on their limbs in no-gi, it literally feels like their muscles are made out of elevator cables or something other than regular muscle.

I’m sure there are types of PEDs that don’t cause this type of difference in feel. But there are definitely some PEDs that cause it.

When you said their guard felt like being tied down by a rope to a giant bag? That resonated deeply.

One time I tried to leg drag pass a heavyweight that was open about his heavy testosterone use. I’m not a small guy, but when I hit the drag, I went into it with total commitment and almost threw myself into the floor. He didn’t move at all.

I can’t say I never considered a cycle. But I was scared my body wouldn’t go back to producing natural testosterone.

This thread is really making me think now. Maybe some of the guys I've faced in competitions were on PEDs. One in particular really has me thinking. No way to be absolutely sure though, nobody seemed to have a physique beyond that which was obtainable naturally for a really gifted bodybuilder - no Mr. Olympia types or anything

 

[Normot]

great job describing something that’s hard to describe. I have rolled with a few guys in gear and it’s pretty obvious. You’re right that they damn near feel like different human beings. Even when you make strong grips on their limbs in no-gi, it literally feels like their muscles are made out of elevator cables or something other than regular muscle.

I’m sure there are types of PEDs that don’t cause this type of difference in feel. But there are definitely some PEDs that cause it.

When you said their guard felt like being tied down by a rope to a giant bag? That resonated deeply.

One time I tried to leg drag pass a heavyweight that was open about his heavy testosterone use. I’m not a small guy, but when I hit the drag, I went into it with total commitment and almost threw myself into the floor. He didn’t move at all.

I can’t say I never considered a cycle. But I was scared my body wouldn’t go back to producing natural testosterone.

Yeah, there is definitely some weird muscle hardness thing that some steroids give. There have been 3 different guys at my gym who have been open about their roid use, 2 of which started off not being on roids and I swear their muscles very quickly became hard as fuck.

 

[Normot]

No, I’m just more informed and experienced than you. Lol.

Your reaction and lil attempt at condescension tells me I read you correctly. What’s hilarious about people like you is 9/10 you’re not as “technical” as you think you are.

Lol, playing make-believe is fun. Sorry I stirred your Cheerios the wrong way. It seems like you really need the last word to prove whatever the fuck your point is right here. So I think you should have it. This hasn't gone well for you, so consider it charity and be thankful.

If you had actually read my initial post you'd realize that I agree with those saying that strength is important at the highest level of sports. But instead you glossed over it and started throwing shade. I was only explaining to hannibal that being super strong in the NFL isn't surprising.....because nearly everyone is super strong(echoing his sentiment), it's a basic requirement to be successful in that sport. Just like in BJJ at the very highest level. With skill being equal, strength and conditioning are going to decide who wins.

I can't infer anything from your guys abilities from these posts other than one person has a higher opinion of the other of the technicality of elite football.

 

[jack36767]

I can't infer anything from your guys abilities from these posts other than one person has a higher opinion of the other of the technicality of elite football.

The guy made the typical hipster type comment about the supposedly “simple” sports. His reaction to me saying it was incorrect and idiotic was to call me a monkey and comments about coloring the wall with feces among other things.. before even attempting to make an actual point that I supposedly incorrect for calling him an idiot..

The fact that he immediately went for the condescension and trying to act like an enlightened intellectual savant talking to a dumb jock monkey.. is behavior I’ve only seen from a certain kind of practitioner...

He then did the lil “I’m just gonna let you have the last word cause you look like a meanie etc. as yet another attempt to look like the “smart” one which further reinforces what kind of practioner he is.

His original statement was idiotic and ignorant. It comes from a place of wanting to be in a sport and world where the bad athletic jocks are inferior because they aren’t as smart or “technical”. It’s snobby chip on the shoulder attitude. Have I been guilty of it? As someone who’s not that athletic and definitely hit a ceiling in my career? Sure. But I got over that idiotic attitude in high school.

It’s the same idiotic attitude that’s kept thousands of bjj guys from learning basic competency at takedowns because wrestling is the “athlete/strength” thing while bjj is just the pure technical true expression of martial arts that is dirtied by using the “strength”

 

[kintana]

This thread is really making me think now. Maybe some of the guys I've faced in competitions were on PEDs. One in particular really has me thinking. No way to be absolutely sure though, nobody seemed to have a physique beyond that which was obtainable naturally for a really gifted bodybuilder - no Mr. Olympia types or anything

This was the first time I know for sure someone did steroids but in my competition career I am pretty sure I went against steroid users. But since there is no testing and depending on which competitions you do, you probably faced a steroid user.

 

[winterbike]

This thread is really making me think now. Maybe some of the guys I've faced in competitions were on PEDs. One in particular really has me thinking. No way to be absolutely sure though, nobody seemed to have a physique beyond that which was obtainable naturally for a really gifted bodybuilder - no Mr. Olympia types or anything

Most PED use is by regular joes, and most of them look like garbage. Not everybody responds well to steroids, on top of not training and eating optimally.

 

[updowniri]

Why are you mentioning blinding powering out of stuff? The point of that thread is that between competent grapplers they can make a difference sometimes taking people from being pathetically weak to decent other times making the already strong brutal.

he is being purposely obtuse, pretending to not understand a very basic train of thought so he can be argumentative

 

[ussf18e]

If you can overpower them l, then they are not doing the technique correctly.

You would have to be executing the escape/ counter correctly gor their technique to fail.

Not true, good females get smashed all the time in the gym from size/strength discrepancy with males.

 

[listrahtes]

he is being purposely obtuse, pretending to not understand a very basic train of thought so he can be argumentative

Yep he does that from the beginning. Its quite classic behaviour from someone roiding and lying to himself about the effects..

 

[Esile]

I respectfully disagree. I've seen very small/old advanced guys with quite good technique, or women grapplers, have a lot of trouble executing techniques against a crazy overpowered noob. Proper technique basically "increases your strength" by letting you more efficiently deliver force; but if the strength difference is great enough, it can become almost insurmountable, depending on how big it is.

Heck, even high level competitive grapplers will struggle if the strength difference is big enough. The recent grappling videos of Hapthor and Martins kind of points this out...pretty interesting to see how technique works when the strength difference ratio is greater than that of a regular adult vs a 5 year old...technique definitely has its limits

Brian Shaw (6'8, 440 lbs and 4X World's Strongest Man winner) also did a recent video grappling with Dustin Poirer, they both let each other start in side control and Shaw is able to tap him out with top pressure, starting at 8:00