Today I felt the power of PEDs in BJJ

[kintana]

I am sure in my 10+ years of jiu jitsu I have gone against guys that used PEDs.

Today, o man today I really saw the difference they make. I was working abroad in a country with high level grappling for 3 months. So I was training consistently with good jiu jitsu players.

Now I go back home to my old gym in my home country. And I see one of my old sparring partners a blackbelt who is good. He will go to mundials or AJP pro tours and he will do okay. He won't medal in the adult divisions but masters divisions he reaches the podiums on occasion but not consistent.

So when we go up against each other we are somewhat even. One of those situations because you know each other's game you can win. I would say I submit him 30% of the time before the PEDs.

Here come the PEDs, apparently before I left he started a PED cycle. I do not know what but he did but he admitted it. He is now jacked and shredded. Now I have gone against guys who I thought were on PEDs before and depending on their technique I can man handle them, fight evenly or they destroy me.

I am a brown belt and today I felt like a blue belt 3 stripes. He pulls guard a lot and when I felt the guard pull, it was like I was attached to a rope with a weighted bag that was kicked down off the roof and i was falling. His armbar was so much tighter, pressure passing heavier. The one thing that shocked me the most was his squeeze from guard(NO GI), it was like a snake coiling around.

I got my ass kicked!!

His technique i would say was the same but everything else about him was just better. He made mistakes so I know his technique did not really improve. But his speed and strength was other world in just 3-4 months.

If I had to put on a scale his improvement i would say it felt like he got 3 belts better.

If he was a white before was now a purple/brown if you will.

I always knew PEDs made you better but now I can honestly say it took a hobbyist blackbelt to maybe a much higher level.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Maximal strength and strength endurance is super important in bjj

 

[winterbike]

And that's probably from basic gear. I can't imagine how guys using the fancy stuff (EPO, SARMs, ...) feel, must be like having superpowers.

 

[yetanother]

And that's probably from basic gear. I can't imagine how guys using the fancy stuff (EPO, SARMs, ...) feel, must be like having superpowers.

Aren't SARMs actually weaker then the basic stuff? If you don't have to doge drug tests and aren't mentally ill and don't do serious body building do you even need the fancy things?

 

[Bubblun]

Pro nogi bjj at the highest level today seems like a competition where the most juiced up athlete wins.

- 37 years old Galvao absolutely manhandling a doper like Pena, the difference in that fight was pure physicality, and you don't get more physical in your late 30ies.
- Kaynan beating Rodolfo, who is under USADA, and the difference in that fight was physicality, Kaynan was using a double collar tie to bother Rodolfo and that shit doesn't work in wrestling, only in grappling, where the bigger, more explosive athlete usually wins the stand up.
- the only one to beat Kaynan recently is 40 years old Cyborg, who is in his prime and looks like an ogre, another late bloomer I guess.
- Gordon Ryan, who is the best nogi guy in the world technically by a landslide, wouldn't be the number 1 guy today if he still was the 190 pounds twig.
- Nicky Ryan, who lost to Tye Ruotolo because of a difference in physicality, recently had a second "puberty", would be fun to see a second match now, with a difference in physicality reversed.

Shit like this make you think that a grappler that has no intention to dope still is tempted to use it if he wants to be competitive.

Lachlan is right here

 

[nefti]

I am sure in my 10+ years of jiu jitsu I have gone against guys that used PEDs.

Today, o man today I really saw the difference they make. I was working abroad in a country with high level grappling for 3 months. So I was training consistently with good jiu jitsu players.

Now I go back home to my old gym in my home country. And I see one of my old sparring partners a blackbelt who is good. He will go to mundials or AJP pro tours and he will do okay. He won't medal in the adult divisions but masters divisions he reaches the podiums on occasion but not consistent.

So when we go up against each other we are somewhat even. One of those situations because you know each other's game you can win. I would say I submit him 30% of the time before the PEDs.

Here come the PEDs, apparently before I left he started a PED cycle. I do not know what but he did but he admitted it. He is now jacked and shredded. Now I have gone against guys who I thought were on PEDs before and depending on their technique I can man handle them, fight evenly or they destroy me.

I am a brown belt and today I felt like a blue belt 3 stripes. He pulls guard a lot and when I felt the guard pull, it was like I was attached to a rope with a weighted bag that was kicked down off the roof and i was falling. His armbar was so much tighter, pressure passing heavier. The one thing that shocked me the most was his squeeze from guard(NO GI), it was like a snake coiling around.

I got my ass kicked!!

His technique i would say was the same but everything else about him was just better. He made mistakes so I know his technique did not really improve. But his speed and strength was other world in just 3-4 months.

If I had to put on a scale his improvement i would say it felt like he got 3 belts better.

If he was a white before was now a purple/brown if you will.

I always knew PEDs made you better but now I can honestly say it took a hobbyist blackbelt to maybe a much higher level.

Why is it a surpris that someone equal skill but much better strength and athletic ability would do better against you?

 

[nefti]

I am a big believer in grapplers doing heavy compound lifts. Natural or not deadlifts, squats, ohp, pullups help

 

[BJJ_Rage]

what you are describing just seems like better techinque... pressure passing is about being tight, not squeezing for you life, a tighter armbar its about being tight, not strenght, if youve said, his wrenching power was off the hook, thats another thing... but what you are describing just seems to be better technique... yes peds help, they make you stronger, better shape (depending on what you are using) may be he started taking s&c more serius, so he had more gas so he was less tired, so he was rolling much better.

 

[yetanother]

- 37 years old Galvao absolutely manhandling a doper like Pena, the difference in that fight was pure physicality, and you don't get more physical in your late 30ies.

Galvao injured Penas rib when he pushed him into the ref table at the start of the match.
Pena is a better athlete then Galvao just that his wrestling is shit.

 

[kintana]

Why is it a surpris that someone equal skill but much better strength and athletic ability would do better against you?

Not really a surprise but it was crazy to see how much better it made a person. I mean yes you can read about Barry Bonds pre and post steroids and see the difference in numbers. In my case I saw someone who I have trained with almost 6 years who made a giant leap in ability from steroids.

I guess my point was when you see the transformation first hand it really shows you the power of PEDs.

 

[Zanderlini]

And that's probably from basic gear. I can't imagine how guys using the fancy stuff (EPO, SARMs, ...) feel, must be like having superpowers.

Basic gear is more effective, EPO and sarms are just harder to test for. SARMS are dirt cheap.

 

[Zanderlini]

I am sure in my 10+ years of jiu jitsu I have gone against guys that used PEDs.

Today, o man today I really saw the difference they make. I was working abroad in a country with high level grappling for 3 months. So I was training consistently with good jiu jitsu players.

Now I go back home to my old gym in my home country. And I see one of my old sparring partners a blackbelt who is good. He will go to mundials or AJP pro tours and he will do okay. He won't medal in the adult divisions but masters divisions he reaches the podiums on occasion but not consistent.

So when we go up against each other we are somewhat even. One of those situations because you know each other's game you can win. I would say I submit him 30% of the time before the PEDs.

Here come the PEDs, apparently before I left he started a PED cycle. I do not know what but he did but he admitted it. He is now jacked and shredded. Now I have gone against guys who I thought were on PEDs before and depending on their technique I can man handle them, fight evenly or they destroy me.

I am a brown belt and today I felt like a blue belt 3 stripes. He pulls guard a lot and when I felt the guard pull, it was like I was attached to a rope with a weighted bag that was kicked down off the roof and i was falling. His armbar was so much tighter, pressure passing heavier. The one thing that shocked me the most was his squeeze from guard(NO GI), it was like a snake coiling around.

I got my ass kicked!!

His technique i would say was the same but everything else about him was just better. He made mistakes so I know his technique did not really improve. But his speed and strength was other world in just 3-4 months.

If I had to put on a scale his improvement i would say it felt like he got 3 belts better.

If he was a white before was now a purple/brown if you will.

I always knew PEDs made you better but now I can honestly say it took a hobbyist blackbelt to maybe a much higher level.

Yeah it's super common in BJJ. They make all the difference, especially at higher belts.

 

[nefti]

Not really a surprise but it was crazy to see how much better it made a person. I mean yes you can read about Barry Bonds pre and post steroids and see the difference in numbers. In my case I saw someone who I have trained with almost 6 years who made a giant leap in ability from steroids.

I guess my point was when you see the transformation first hand it really shows you the power of PEDs.

Think about it, he would win any 50/50 situation. Assuming that the only reason he beat you was trt (its a little suspect that you wont even entertain the possibility that his jiu jitsu got better tho...), then he won because he was your lvl or a bit above your lvl. If you used to tap him 30 % of the time you either didnt win or lost 70% of the time before.

 

[kintana]

Think about it, he would win any 50/50 situation. Assuming that the only reason he beat you was trt (its a little suspect that you wont even entertain the possibility that his jiu jitsu got better tho...), then he won because he was your lvl or a bit above your lvl. If you used to tap him 30 % of the time you either didnt win or lost 70% of the time before.

The reason I say his jiu jitsu I do not believe got better is because I felt more power than smooth technique. He was just explosive, also when he pulled me into his guard his sweeps were the same none of them worked, which was usually the case.

Where I saw the difference was the standing game where his guard pull was just crazy. His passing game is usually over under and slow. Yesterday it felt heavy and fast. I remember in one over under he pulls me up where my shoulders were on the mat and he just passes. And I am 102 kgs and he is 78 kgs. I mean he never tried this in the past 6 years.

So did his technique get better maybe, but my question is in 6 years his technique did not make giant leap. And suddenly in 3 months his technique just explodes. Personally I feel it was all the steroids, especially since he says used them and he never used them before.

I think you can tell when a guy is smashing you when he uses technique and when someone just uses their strength and athletic ability.

 

[nefti]

The reason I say his jiu jitsu I do not believe got better is because I felt more power than smooth technique. He was just explosive, also when he pulled me into his guard his sweeps were the same none of them worked, which was usually the case.

Where I saw the difference was the standing game where his guard pull was just crazy. His passing game is usually over under and slow. Yesterday it felt heavy and fast. I remember in one over under he pulls me up where my shoulders were on the mat and he just passes. And I am 102 kgs and he is 78 kgs. I mean he never tried this in the past 6 years.

So did his technique get better maybe, but my question is in 6 years his technique did not make giant leap. And suddenly in 3 months his technique just explodes. Personally I feel it was all the steroids, especially since he says used them and he never used them before.

I think you can tell when a guy is smashing you when he uses technique and when someone just uses their strength and athletic ability.

Pressure passing is more about technique than brute strength. If he was "just using their strength and athletic ability" they wont be able to hold you (a veteran brown belt) down, pass your guard, and then maintain side control without you escaping. He is doing all these things because he is a black belt who got stronger and you are a brown belt.

 

[listrahtes]

Why is it a surpris that someone equal skill but much better strength and athletic ability would do better against you?

Are you really not getting it. He is surprised because the amount of strenght difference to before the PED abuse is enormous (which it is with roids in grappling) and you cant comprehend until experienced. Thats the whole thread. Seems much more you dont want to understand with all these nonsensical posts were you basically tell him you know better about his own experiences. You are trying to argue semantics were everyone gets what this is about who wants to understand.

If he was "just using their strength and athletic ability" they wont be able to hold you (a veteran brown belt) down

Again you create a nonexisting contradiction. Its obvious he meant "just" using MORE strenght while applying the same high level skillset as a bb he had before.

 

[nefti]

Are you really not getting it. He is surprised because the amount of strenght difference to before the PED abuse is enormous (which it is with roids in grappling) and you cant comprehend until experienced. Thats the whole thread. Seems much more you dont want to understand with all these nonsensical posts were you basically tell him you know better about his own experiences. You are trying to argue semantics were everyone gets what this is about who wants to understand.



Again you create a nonexisting contradiction. Its obvious he meant "just" using MORE strenght while applying the same high level skillset as a bb he had before.

Ive trained wirh training partners who were on trt/ped. Yes they are stronger, but not to the point they did what happened to the op.

 

[yetanother]

Ive trained wirh training partners who were on trt/ped. Yes they are stronger, but not to the point they did what happened to the op.

The difference is huge from my experierence. I had training partners that went from being competetive when they where on steroids to being pathetlicaly weak to the point where I was just overpowering them even when they where using thing technically correctly.

 

[nefti]

The difference is huge from my experierence. I had training partners that went from being competetive when they where on steroids to being pathetlicaly weak to the point where I was just overpowering them even when they where using thing technically correctly.

If you can overpower them l, then they are not doing the technique correctly.

You would have to be executing the escape/ counter correctly gor their technique to fail.

 

[yetanother]

If you can overpower them l, then they are not doing the technique correctly.

You would have to be executing the escape/ counter correctly gor their technique to fail.

What? Strength matters in bjj. If the difference is too big a lot of things cease or begin to work. I
Moves don't have to work regardless of physicality to be correct. If anything I would argue they are tricks if they can be countered by pure technique.