Kickboxing or Muay Thai should in theory be more popular than MMA and Boxing? Why is it not?

[Oceanmachine]

Most casuals or spectators do NOT appreciate grappling nor do they apprreciate 12 or more rounds of only throwing punches with big gloves on.


MMA to me has already displaced boxing. Casuals appreciate slams, all stand up striking and respect submissions.


But all casuals seem to love KOs and the idea of pure kickboxing. I am talking

Knees
Elbows
All kicks
All punches

Being legal


Muay Thai type org has the potential to be so exciting and bigger yet it isnt

 

[Kanka]

The format of the fights in Thai stadiums is not really marketed towards a global audience, but rather to gamblers. To a western audience, there is too much of a cultural barrier and many aspects of the Muay Thai game are difficult to understand unless you immerse yourself. Maybe ONE will make it more popular but they have some financial problems.

 

[Megalodon]

Honestly, I find a lot of (not all) Kickboxing kind of boring.

It seems too easy for the super high level guys to use the gloves for defense and most of the time you just get a closely contested, mid paced leg kick fest that goes to a decision, which is fine, but just not for me.

ONE definitely made Muay Thai a lot more accessible.

 

[Nova44]

Boxing is more accessible, easy to understand, involves a shit load of money, and everyone is on a level playing field only throwing punches.

Muay thai like kanka said is made for the gamblers and is huge in thailand, it will never be huge outside of thailand apart from to hardcore fans.

Kickboxing is not popular because fighters are too split up between orgs, orgs die left and right when you get used to them, a lot of guys just point fight and it can be a bit boring, and there's not a lot of money involved.

Mma while having so many things to learn about, has the benefit of having 90% of the top fighters in one org. Yes Bellator is around too but there's a reason most people who start training mixed martial arts will say "i train ufc" as most people know the sport as just the ufc.

Boxing will always be the most popular, followed by mma, kickboxing just isn't unified enough to gain a mass following unfortunately, and thai's don't need muay thai to gain global recognition.

 

[Snubnoze707]

This is a played out topic.

The notion that people hate the ground game is antiquated by about 10 or so years. The UFC blowing up killed the chance of Kickboxing to.

 

[Deleted member 576123]

@Oceanmachine Your thread is okay man but people have taken to the full game of MMA by now.
I love MMA but only because I loved pre-rule MMA. Vale Tudo, or real "nhb". Problem was, the ruleset was essential and so we see a finite contest of ability.

Muay Thai and Lethwei for me, are so beautiful to watch. I wish Lehtwei had the same fighter roster of high level as Muay Thai does, to see raw stand up fights.

Kickboxing "K1" was around when I was learning kickboxing in 2000 but sadly, Glory doesn't seem to be able to attract so many (esp HW) potential top fighters.

I am sure that is multifactored though, not just Glory being lower quality than K1 was

 

[Oceanmachine]

Boxing is more accessible, easy to understand, involves a shit load of money, and everyone is on a level playing field only throwing punches.

Muay thai like kanka said is made for the gamblers and is huge in thailand, it will never be huge outside of thailand apart from to hardcore fans.

Kickboxing is not popular because fighters are too split up between orgs, orgs die left and right when you get used to them, a lot of guys just point fight and it can be a bit boring, and there's not a lot of money involved.

Mma while having so many things to learn about, has the benefit of having 90% of the top fighters in one org. Yes Bellator is around too but there's a reason most people who start training mixed martial arts will say "i train ufc" as most people know the sport as just the ufc.

Boxing will always be the most popular, followed by mma, kickboxing just isn't unified enough to gain a mass following unfortunately, and thai's don't need muay thai to gain global recognition.

MMA is jusy more exciting with way more top athletes and is like a street fight with some rules. And the way MMA is going they will loosen more rules. 10 years ago clavicle grabbing, some upkicks, and kidney shots and partial knees to head were banned. Now they are legal

@Oceanmachine Your thread is okay man but people have taken to the full game of MMA by now.
I love MMA but only because I loved pre-rule MMA. Vale Tudo, or real "nhb". Problem was, the ruleset was essential and so we see a finite contest of ability.

Muay Thai and Lethwei for me, are so beautiful to watch. I wish Lehtwei had the same fighter roster of high level as Muay Thai does, to see raw stand up fights.

Kickboxing "K1" was around when I was learning kickboxing in 2000 but sadly, Glory doesn't seem to be able to attract so many (esp HW) potential top fighters.

I am sure that is multifactored though, not just Glory being lower quality than K1 was

I had to google Lethwei. Woah amazing. Head butts used to be part of mainstream Muay Thai right? Also didnt groin strikes?

Man I wish an Organization like Lethwei would come around. That has the potential to satisfy all just bleed fans

 

[Nova44]

MMA is jusy more exciting with way more top athletes and is like a street fight with some rules. And the way MMA is going they will loosen more rules. 10 years ago clavicle grabbing, some upkicks, and kidney shots and partial knees to head were banned. Now they are legal

- Clavicle grabbing will never be legal, if UFC allowed it they'd be shut down
- Upkicks are legal as long as the up fighter is completely up, that could be changed though
- Knees to the head of a downed opponent are legal in asia, but they'll never be allowed stateside

 

[SuperLuigi]

It all comes down to what has a cultural presence. Boxing has been part of American culture for hundreds of years, MMA got really lucky due to the stars aligning perfectly for them. Kickboxing will never have either of those. I guess it would be nice if it was maybe half as big as those but its just how it is.

 

[Bang Rachan]

The marketing is not good

 

[Nova44]

The marketing is not good

Even if the marketing for KB was good it wouldn't help at this point, sadly the ship sailed long ago for KB to be as popular as boxing or mma.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Stadium MT is catered to thai gamblers.
KB fragmented and poorly marketed.

 

[BKFC_best_sport]

The skill level of your sport doesn't matter cause they look all the same to casuals.

Just ask yourself this questiln: why isn't BKFC more popular than boxing and MMA? It has all the stuff you want, every fight is more fun than all boxing and mma matches combined minus the boring grappling.

Easy: it lacks stars and that's how your sport becomes more popular.

And here comes the sad part: Muay Thai will never reach the popularity of boxing or mma, it's too hard. Muay Thai takes a different level of toughness, they fight many times a year and don't give a shit about injuries which means we will never see a guy like Conor, Fury or Joshua cause sad guys are the definition of pussys, Boxers and MMA guys fight 2-3 times a year and can't stay in shape.

But don't worry, Pro wrestling dwarfs your fav combat sport.

 

[Dexter]

The skill level of your sport doesn't matter cause they look all the same to casuals.

Just ask yourself this questiln: why isn't BKFC more popular than boxing and MMA? It has all the stuff you want, every fight is more fun than all boxing and mma matches combined minus the boring grappling.

Easy: it lacks stars and that's how your sport becomes more popular.

And here comes the sad part: Muay Thai will never reach the popularity of boxing or mma, it's too hard. Muay Thai takes a different level of toughness, they fight many times a year and don't give a shit about injuries which means we will never see a guy like Conor, Fury or Joshua cause sad guys are the definition of pussys, Boxers and MMA guys fight 2-3 times a year and can't stay in shape.

But don't worry, Pro wrestling dwarfs your fav combat sport.

Boxing in US in 1920-1950 was at the same level of development as MT in Thailand nowadays - huge number of small gyms and clubs around the country, bouts every weekend, guys with records of 100+ fights competing against same lvl of fighters, not some booms, best vs best, promoters didn't give a shit about you having 0 losses in your stats or not. Sadly, we end up with Paul vs Ascren freak-shows...

 

[SandisLL]

freak shows, worship for 0 in record, cherry picking and hometown officiating had been made pro boxing very predictable and boring show.
Casaul flowchart: pad record with mismatched opponents, preferably short notice opponents, then lurk for enough easily beatable opponents with good places in rankings.
Later at high level cherry picking continues with a glance.
Pro boxing is dying and boring but usable to serve fans who does not dig in depth there.
Damn boring business with some upsets. Sometimes opponent appears not enough old or not enough ring rusty etc.

All this works for A side kid only and this is far from KB/MT like different world.

 

[Nova44]

freak shows, worship for 0 in record, cherry picking and hometown officiating had been made pro boxing very predictable and boring show.
Casaul flowchart: pad record with mismatched opponents, preferably short notice opponents, then lurk for enough easily beatable opponents with good places in rankings.
Later at high level cherry picking continues with a glance.
Pro boxing is dying and boring but usable to serve fans who does not dig in depth there.
Damn boring business with some upsets. Sometimes opponent appears not enough old or not enough ring rusty etc.

All this works for A side kid only and this is far from KB/MT like different world.

Sandis, this thread is about muay thai/kickboxing not being as popular as other combat sports, it has nothing to do with your rants about why you hate boxing. Take it to the boxing sub if you're just gonna rant about boxing.

 

[GolovKing]

Boxing has the advantage in that it was the first one and is now culturally ingrained in many places like the US. In many american communities the proper way to fight is to just use your fists only, a lot of places you'll get jumped for being a cheater if you start throwing kicks or start grappling. Now in recent decades the ufc went from filling a niche to now actually competing with boxing. This is because the ufc has honestly done a great job promoting itself, their promotion and marketing team is way better than any other fight promotion on the planet, and that includes boxing, mma, kickboxing you name it. People say it's too much like wrestling but all that drama, and the personalities you see is what sells, and the fights in the ufc are pretty dramatic as well. Lots of upsets, highlight reel finishes and epic moments that make other combat sports and fight leagues look stale in comparison. And as far as muay thai and kickboxing are concerned, I really just dont think theres enough room for them when mma and boxing already take up such a large share of the market.

 

[SandisLL]

And as far as muay thai and kickboxing are concerned, I really just dont think theres enough room for them when mma and boxing already take up such a large share of the market.

Well, I did had saw fight with fight card like this : guy with 4-0-0 vs 0-10-0 ( 5 lost fights via stoppage ) in pro boxing but never in KB even small hall level show or mma.

This obsession with numbers in record and 0 had developed match making in pro boxing till very boring level. Until some kids had beated up fighter who does have 4 fights lost in row before a title fight and this brand had been touted.

 

[SandisLL]

Sandis, this thread is about muay thai/kickboxing not being as popular as other combat sports, it has nothing to do with your rants about why you hate boxing

I do not hate boxing. I love boxing in depth with my soul and my position in pro boxing for some pro fights was matchmaker's advisor.

 

[Nova44]

I do not hate boxing. I love boxing in depth with my soul and my position in pro boxing for some pro fights was matchmaker's advisor.

Ok fine, but if you're gonna rant about boxing just go to that sub forum.