Kickboxing or Muay Thai should in theory be more popular than MMA and Boxing? Why is it not?

[Tayski]

I think everyone needs to stop fantasizing about KB/MT being BIG. Muay Thai is really only flourishing in Thailand, and Kickboxing really only in Japan and a few European countries.

If you want to wish for anything, wish for the sports to become sustainable, period. Glory is on the brink of death, I wouldn't worry about them blowing up. ONE is really the only consistent promotion and we all know they are losing millions.

Most divisions are incredibly shallow, especially at the higher weights. Lets just hope for the sport to be consistent and improve, I'm not worried about it being BIG just being alive period.

I agree with you and actually even in Thailand Muay Thai is not even flourishing per say but rather stagnating after having massively lost popularity the last couple of decades. There's been a bit of a revival recently but it's still nothing like it was during its golden age.

Heavier divisions are usually shallower in most combat sports btw especially nowadays, regardless of if it's MT/KB or boxing or MMA.

Still I'm happy that after the death of old K-1 and MT being past its golden age that we still get to see so many fights in KB and MT thanks to most stadium cards being shown online for free, One FC always releasing all their fights, Glory still not being completely dead yet, K-1 and other Japanese orgs still making a bit of a resurgence, and then even other smaller orgs like Yokkao and Thai Fight putting on some cards.

 

[Savage67]

Things casuals hate about MT:
1. The music
2. The first 2 rounds
3. The clinch
4. The scoring
5. The 'going out on your shield' mentality being absent
6. The music

That being said while K1 style fighting (not actual old school KB) is more interesting to the casual I do think 4oz gloves and elbows would complete it. Elbows were only initially removed because of the one show Grand Prix format and the damage they inflicted - this is no longer an issue as that format is rare now, and even if it did happen then it could be elbows only in the final.

 

[Bang Rachan]

Things casuals hate about MT:
1. The music
2. The first 2 rounds
3. The clinch
4. The scoring
5. The 'going out on your shield' mentality being absent
6. The music

That being said while K1 style fighting (not actual old school KB) is more interesting to the casual I do think 4oz gloves and elbows would complete it. Elbows were only initially removed because of the one show Grand Prix format and the damage they inflicted - this is no longer an issue as that format is rare now, and even if it did happen then it could be elbows only in the final.

One of my friends also said kicking is gay so that could be a reason

 

[Tayski]

Things casuals hate about MT:
1. The music
2. The first 2 rounds
3. The clinch
4. The scoring
5. The 'going out on your shield' mentality being absent
6. The music

That being said while K1 style fighting (not actual old school KB) is more interesting to the casual I do think 4oz gloves and elbows would complete it. Elbows were only initially removed because of the one show Grand Prix format and the damage they inflicted - this is no longer an issue as that format is rare now, and even if it did happen then it could be elbows only in the final.

You forgot:
-the "long" Wai Kru
-the commentary usually being in Thai
-most fights being in "small" weight classes
-punches not being the main weapon of choice apart from a few fights like Rodtang.

People in the West tend to prefer heavier weight classes and punches being the main weapon of focus.

 

[John the Barbarian]

The format of the fights in Thai stadiums is not really marketed towards a global audience, but rather to gamblers. To a western audience, there is too much of a cultural barrier and many aspects of the Muay Thai game are difficult to understand unless you immerse yourself. Maybe ONE will make it more popular but they have some financial problems.

You're only talking about authentic Muay Thai matches but what about K-1 kickboxing format where its just about the fight and no traditions?

My answer to the original question would be that kickboxing is in the middle ground between Boxing and MMA. Boxing offers the oldschool traditional familiar form of prize fighting where MMA offers the opposite extreme. MMA is kickboxing (Not as high level) essentially and more. You can ask yourself about other combat sports as well ie. Jiuj-jitsu, Wrestling, Judo... They are all not as popular as well for the same reason I would say.

American Sports fans are changing though and I think as boxing declines kickboxing will rise. As a wise man once said "Kickboxing is the sport of the FUTURE." and I believe him.

 

[SandisLL]

MMA is kickboxing (Not as high level) essentially and more.

It isn't.
Depends from fighters background.

I had saw MMA lads with so different backgrounds that there maybe better to wrote article and charge for this.

If about level, I hope Cro Cop and GSP didn't had looked for you as so low level.

 

[Kanka]

You're only talking about authentic Muay Thai matches but what about K-1 kickboxing format where its just about the fight and no traditions?

My answer to the original question would be that kickboxing is in the middle ground between Boxing and MMA. Boxing offers the oldschool traditional familiar form of prize fighting where MMA offers the opposite extreme. MMA is kickboxing (Not as high level) essentially and more. You can ask yourself about other combat sports as well ie. Jiuj-jitsu, Wrestling, Judo... They are all not as popular as well for the same reason I would say.

American Sports fans are changing though and I think as boxing declines kickboxing will rise. As a wise man once said "Kickboxing is the sport of the FUTURE." and I believe him.

K-1 was popular in Europe and Japan at some point though.

 

[John the Barbarian]

It isn't.
Depends from fighters background.

I had saw MMA lads with so different backgrounds that there maybe better to wrote article and charge for this.

If about level, I hope Cro Cop and GSP didn't had looked for you as so low level.

WTF are talking about you idiot? This forum is filled with s.

 

[John the Barbarian]

K-1 was popular in Europe and Japan at some point though.

What’s your point?

 

[KingGuerrilla]

Most casuals or spectators do NOT appreciate grappling nor do they apprreciate 12 or more rounds of only throwing punches with big gloves on.


MMA to me has already displaced boxing. Casuals appreciate slams, all stand up striking and respect submissions.


But all casuals seem to love KOs and the idea of pure kickboxing. I am talking

Knees
Elbows
All kicks
All punches

Being legal


Muay Thai type org has the potential to be so exciting and bigger yet it isnt

thats easy, and I've been saying the same thing for many years (with varying levels of reactions) Just like the sport of wrestling America invented its own set of rules for kickboxing and that put their athletes at a disadvantage in international competition thus the United States never provided a competitive stand-up champion and not enough people are gonna buy T-shirts with some Foreigner on it!!!

The UFC did everything it could to push American wrestlers to the top because that's the only American that could compete in MMA so they continuously fiddled with the rules and kept certain athletes away as best they could. That's why they nerfed knees as best they could because Americans were terrible at throwing them and dealing with them. The lack of competitive Americans was a major problem in early MMA history for the Sports Development

I organized a community center kickboxing Club back when jean-claude's kickboxer first hit and overnight we were transformed into a Muay Thai Club because that's all anybody wanted to do and subsequently we became a MMA Club after UFC aired in 1993 for the same reason, nobody gave a damn about kickboxer anymore!!!

The sad fact is people are more influenced by movies than they are by Sport and sport is often times manipulated into Sports entertainment by by profiteers interested in selling more t-shirts and so if your local boy doesn't win you're not going to be selling as many t-shirts and most people don't give a rat's ass about the sanctity of the athletic contests unfortunately.

Judo wouldn't have been popular in France if they didn't invest in the sport and never produced any french Judo champions.

The irony is you have to win at a certain sport in order to make it popular and in order to get support it has to be popular so you have to win before you get the support but once you get the support you can produce more and more winners and it becomes a self-fulfilling snowball rolling downhill.

I had to kill myself to make mixed martial arts popular in my region but once we started producing winners I could stay at home and smoke a bong and our club would continue to grow because we finally got support

I didn't even have to advertise anymore

If the UFC added a "stand and bang" division that had an intelligent application of rules it would change the dynamic

I've always said old school Stadium Muay Thai was the ultimate spectator sport but they would have to bring back the slam and allow athletes to get a couple shots at a submission on the ground, even though this rule set has existed for many years in quiet unpopular martial arts it never got the exposure it deserved so it never became popular because without the exposure you couldn't produce localized champs.

Modern MMA is effectually stand and bang anyway anymore because all you have to do is stall in an inferior position for the standup

it's just ironic that no one has picked up on this strategy except Derrick Lewis LOL

 

[Broadcast]

Kickboxing is way more popular in Europe than MMA. MMA besides Russia is a considered a very violent sport. Sure, the gyms are open for MMA as well, but it is way under kickboxing. MMA may have caught it also in the UK, but it has been abandoned since boxing.

MMA is popular in the US, that"s all..

 

[Broadcast]

What’s your point?

His point is only some Americans think MMA is big. Kickboxing may lack money, but it is full of promotions in Europe. In China and Japan the same (minus some losers who are backing big MMA in Japan but the fans with knowledges though not very many in combat sports know the kickboxers of Japan still hold more quality). It"s not happening the same with the MMA...

Sure, the MMA is growing, being attracted by the UFC money!

Regarding boxing, it"s a global sport like karate. Though, many people are not interested anymore in taking so many punches in the head.

I am honest, I dislike a bit MMA and from all these 3 I like it the least. I do enjoy even Muay Thai a lot more.

MMA in my opinion would have no chance to grow like boxing, and kickboxing would have this chance. Well, only if the people become really stupid. For me, it would be more important to see 1 kickboxing champion than 2 champions in the UFC... Boxing is a really attractive sport for the most, MMA is not!

 

[KingGuerrilla]

People love to see the slam and or take down... they're just not terribly keen on the ground transitions after that unless of course you're the Highly Educated Japanese fans who appreciate every aspect of Combat Sports.

I'm sure it wasn't like this in the ancient Greco-Roman days but today the wrestler scores a take down on the BJJ athlete and they're both happy stalling in their respective positions on the ground, the wrestler takes potshots at the BJJ athlete while the BJJ athlete tries to snatch a submission on the wrestler.

It's incredible we actually don't have mixed martial arts gyms but places that have a la carte martial arts and glue them all together to create a Frankenstein's monster MMA. Athletes still come from one or two home styles that eventually end up predicting their positional desires

I blame Brazilian jiu-jitsu for making mixed martial arts groundwork boring, I guarantee athletes didn't pull guard and hold on like baby monkeys back in the ancient Greco-Roman pankration days but it's a viable strategy in today's manipulated mixed martial arts contest where positional dominance does not convey a reliable points infrastructure that rewards the individual in the dominant position and penalizes the individual in the inferior position. If both Fighters were doing everything they could to scramble to their feet the contest wouldn't be boring when they hit the ground, the UFC knows this that's why they'd rather have characters like Derrick Lewis, Tank Abbott and Kimbo Slice then royce gracie anymore

America could never produce an International kickboxing champion that's why it could never gain traction thus died out so quickly after that horrible Jean-Claude movie.

One needs to look no further than video games to understand that kickboxing is literally DOA internationally and I agree with the OP that this simply does not make sense from a fight logistic standpoint

It only makes sense when you accept the fact that 90% of fans are just hero Worshiping tribal idiots who want nothing more than to see somebody get knocked the fük out and for their Hometown man to win.... they don't appreciate the sanctity of the sport and The for-profit Operators that put on the shows are well aware of this unfortunate fact

 

[John the Barbarian]

His point is only some Americans think MMA is big. Kickboxing may lack money, but it is full of promotions in Europe. In China and Japan the same (minus some losers who are backing big MMA in Japan but the fans with knowledges though not very many in combat sports know the kickboxers of Japan still hold more quality). It"s not happening the same with the MMA...

Sure, the MMA is growing, being attracted by the UFC money!

Regarding boxing, it"s a global sport like karate. Though, many people are not interested anymore in taking so many punches in the head.

I am honest, I dislike a bit MMA and from all these 3 I like it the least. I do enjoy even Muay Thai a lot more.

MMA in my opinion would have no chance to grow like boxing, and kickboxing would have this chance. Well, only if the people become really stupid. For me, it would be more important to see 1 kickboxing champion than 2 champions in the UFC... Boxing is a really attractive sport for the most, MMA is not!

What makes you think I care about your opinion on what you like you idiot?

I’m answering the threads question as to why factually speaking mma and boxing are more popular than kickboxing, I’m not giving an opinion of what I like better. Fucking retards.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Are we really still using 2002 talking points about MMA? The ground game is CLEARLY no longer an issue for fans. Its pretty rare to see lay n' pray in the sport these days as well. That last UFC was a super fast event because all of the fights ended in stoppages. The main event was an absolute highlight real KO with sweat/spit flying.

 

[SandisLL]

WTF are talking about you idiot? This forum is filled with s.

With disrespectful and unskilled kids like you with chips on shoulders.
Of course and you do not know nor bare piece from KB or MMA real history nor even notable pro athletes background but already had developed your troll chip on shoulder cos you do not know bare shit about things you are commenting and still are rude, crazy and cocky kid.

 

[Nova44]

Are we really still using 2002 talking points about MMA? The ground game is CLEARLY no longer an issue for fans. Its pretty rare to see lay n' pray in the sport these days as well. That last UFC was a super fast event because all of the fights ended in stoppages. The main event was an absolute highlight real KO with sweat/spit flying.

This thread is just 3 toddlers fighting over who can eat crayons faster.

 

[23rd Century Sweetheart]

I will speak from the perspective of a complete kickboxing casual. I literally only know of JWP, Mark Hunt, Ray Sefo, Psycho Suttie (because of lots of Pacific islanders around me) Takeru, Tenshin, Masato, Petrosyan and Raymond Daniels. As far as the Thai's go I only know of Samart, Saenchai and Buakuaw. Of course I know the guys who found success in MMA and came from kickboxing.

Anyway. Number one is I don't know which organisation to follow. I know of Glory, K1, Rising, ONE, Bellator kickboxing.. that's about it. It seems there were a bunch of older ones that died off. Spreading the talent across organisations makes me confused on the skill levels. It seems kickboxers are much more active but does that mean they're fighting cans half the time?

When I look at gyms around my area they seem to have k1 classes, MT, kickboxing... So many rulesets. That makes me question what other sports are considered kickboxing, e.g Karate under Karate Combat rules? Personally I'd want to follow the least restrictive one.

Most of all, Im not really used to 3 rounds of 3 minutes, my eyes/brain aren't quick enough to see the nuances or learn them. It honestly seems like dudes are just throwing most the time with no regards for gameplan, whereas there's breathing room in MMA, ring size contributes to this too. Obviously they are skilled because I'm familiar with Izzy, Overeem etc.

 

[wheel2wheel]

It's becoming popular more than ever, courtesy of ONE.

 

[the big marmot]

when high kicks are that common they devalue