Media Olympic Gold medalist Gable Steveson transition to MMA? (Tags Dana)

[Noel Wards]

Gane, you've just been set on notice. Fly over some NCAA wrestlers Frenchie and pray you work it out before big dog arrives.

 

[Grappler111]

.

And Moldavski literally took the back of a NCAA wrestler in his last fight, so your generalizations about him "not going for submissions" are just false, sugar cheeks.

A 36 years old div2 wrestler with no record at international level...

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

Dana don't want another chiesa on his hands does he? From what I know of him, he hates wrestlers like most fans watching the sport live.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Um, no, sweatie, you're the one trying to misclassify a martial art, not me.
1. Combat sambo contains submissions and most combat sambists have at least a decent submission grappling game, especially in MMA where sambo has been proven to be no less effective than BJJ.
2. If combat sambists spent minimal time training submission grappling, they would be getting tapped left and right in MMA, but they aren't. Instead, we see many combat sambists dominating BJJ blackbelts on the ground.
3. Moldavski doesn't suck at submissions against guys who will have at most 1 year of BJJ practice under their belt. Suckitude is relative, pumpkin.
4. BJJ fighters who have spent a lifetime training BJJ also frequently submit wrestlers with poor submission grappling skills, it goes both ways, actually. However, combat sambists more often than not can at least hold their own on the ground against BJJ blackbelts in MMA, especially from top. Why? Definitely not because they do not train submission grappling, sweetie pum.

1. No they don't. They really really don't. Khabib does. And Islam. And probably a few of the other sambists you've seen. Khabib has given sambo an aura of invincibility that is unrealistic. It's a great art but as with anything else skill varies greatly from practitioner to practitioner. Most sambists who transition to MMA train at top MMA gyms in the region and train MMA, and that's why they're good at MMA. There's a massive gap between people who train at Team Fedor, or Eagles MMA, and people who train in other camps. To some extent that gap is caused by recruiting as well, but most sambists transition very poorly to MMA. Which camp they train at is very important.
2. You don't see many. You see Khabib, and I doubt you watch Bellator but you see Amosov maybe and a few others. Islam. As I said at the start, there are many many other sambists, world champions, who try their hand out in MMA and perform terribly. And that's ok, to some extent that's to be expect. But the UFC only ever carries about 25 russians on their roster, maybe half of whom have a sambo background. So these are the very best fighters who transitioned from MMA to sambo. And still, how many of their names can you name off the top of your head? Abubakar Nurmagomedov, an Abdulmanap student, got subbed his first fight by Zawada. Ramazan Emeev, got subbed in his second pro fight by a nobody. Zubaira Tukhogov, also got subbed early in his career. Even Zabit was submitted early in his career. Like what you don't realize is that these guys don't train sambo, they train MMA. They often start out very susceptible to submissions just like wrestlers start out susceptible to submissions. That's why all these elite sambists early in their MMA careers got subbed by nobodies. They were in the process of learning. And now they are veterans they've reached the UFC, they don't get subbed as often.

And lets talk about the second reason that sambists don't get tapped left and right. No one gets tapped left and right who has any sort of a grappling background. Offensive jiu jitsu is very bad in the modern fight meta. Usually when submission do happen they're preceded by a knockdown, by ground and pound, some sort of concussive action. When they do happen without any prior strikes, they typically denote a significant gap in skill between the parties. Like for example, Aljo vs. Sandhagen, Sandhagen is a striker, Aljo is a wrestler, Aljo got to the back and subbed him. That's very rare with a good grappler. Aljo himself, for example, has never been subbed. It's not a common way to lose if you know what you're doing and you aren't concussed.

3+4. I'll lump 3 and 4 into one because you basically replied with the same argument. What you don't seem to understand is that grappling experience and submission grappling experience are highly transferrable. When a wrestler or a sambist moves from wrestling/sambo to jiu jitsu, they don't start from square one. I sense from the overall ignorance of your commentary that you've never done submission grappling or jiu jitsu before. Because if you had, you'd know that wrestlers have a sort of respect or reverence in the jiu jitsu community. Particularly college wrestlers are known to walk into jiu jitsu places with little or no experience and just start beating legitimately good jiu jitsu guys. Wrestlers also often win or do well in local tournaments with little or no jiu jitsu training. The extreme end of that was Nick Rodriguez, who was a wrestler who got silver at ADCC (considered the premier grappling tournament) after only training jiu jitsu for a year. Now, you've been throwing around the term "a year" here and there, I've never actually given a time frame. Ben Askren said 18 months, hyperbolically right? But, compared to Linton Vassell (a blue belt with no grappling background), or Javy Ayala (a striker), or Ernest James (1 pro fight experience total), Gable will absolutely be as good as them at submission grappling within a year. Like, it's not even close. And Moldavsky rode their backs for the entire fight and never once tried an RNC. He tried a lazy arm triangle from side control against the first two, when it didn't work he gave up on it pretty quickly. So yes, suckitude is relative. And relative to other fighters that Moldavsky has not even attempt to sub, Gable is pretty good with just a year's training.

Finally, BJJ artists don't particularly frequently submit wrestlers, even college wrestlers forget someone of Gable's stature. It just doesn't happen that much. Are there some examples? Sure, I mean Demian Maia submitted Ben Askren. He was also the greatest jiu jitsu artist the sport has ever known. And I can name examples of sambists getting subbed. Like Blagoy Ivanov (a sambo world champ) getting subbed by Alexander Volkov in his prime, and Volkov is a striker so it's extra embarrassing. But it doesn't happen often and for exactly the reason you just said, but it's true for sambists and for wrestlers because sambists and wrestlers do functionally the same thing. They are usually on top, and there are not that many submission to threaten from bottom, and the ones that there are tend to be low percentage. But if a sambist isn't on top, if the sambist is the one who has given his back or is on bottom, it's fair game, and even a guy like Blagoy Ivanov can be subbed. It just doesn't happen that often, to either wrestlers or sambists. But because there are so few sambists in the UFC, again only the very cream of the crop are here, the percentage is not lower but the absolute number may be lower.

And Moldavski literally took the back of a NCAA wrestler in his last fight, so your generalizations about him "not going for submissions" are just false, sugar cheeks.

It's comments like these that are really telling, because what you're telling me is that you're either new to MMA, or you're old but don't know much, and/or you don't watch much. Which is fine, but it's weird that you don't know anything and then you're coming to argue with me.

Yes, he got to the back of Johnson last match. I literally said it above, he loves riding back mount. Do you know what wrestlers do? They ride the back. That is wrestling 101. Did you watch Gable Steveson win the Olympics? Do you know how he did it? He got to the back. Wrestlers love getting to the back, it's the position that they're the most familiar with by far. But what does Moldavsky do when he gets to the back? Nothing. He doesn't even really attempt RNCs, much less finish them. Because it's about position rather than submission.

So let's talk about why the back? Because in wrestling, when your opponent has been taken down he often goes belly down to prevent you from getting a cradle and pinning him. So wrestlers are very familiar with riding the back because it's the position they usually operate from when they start to try to execute a pin. That's why wrestlers love back mount so much. They know the feel of being on top of someone, they know how to operate, they know how to balance on the back, that's why they like being on the back. The other position is half guard/side control. So to go back to Moldavsky taking the back of Johnson. Yes! Yes! He took his back and rode it. Because he is a wrestler. And that's what wrestlers do.

And I think the whole conversation with you is really hard because, to be frank, I don't think you've seen much of Moldavsky. I'm part of a small group of weirdos who are on the bellator boards and we watch the bellator events and stuff. I'm the only one who actually likes Moldavsky. Other people who actually watch him and watch bellator hate him and call him a blanket, and complain that he never goes for finishes. So imagine my confusion when someone here is saying that the thing that any MMA fighter has to fear from Moldavsky is his submission finishing game. That's just not something he does. And if you watched him, you'd know that.

 

[aali14]

500k base pay and PPV points for his debut most likely lmao

 

[TorontoTO]

The UFC has a way easier path to the top then Bellator. Moldavsky, Bader, Minakov, Fortune, Johnson would all give him at least some pushback in terms his wrestling, while in the UFC Dana obviously values striking in all his talent above wrestling.

 

[TorontoTO]

500k base pay and PPV points for his debut most likely lmao

No one is getting PPV points besides champs and very special cases like Conor or the Diaz bros. Even legends like Anderson didn't get PPV points later on

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Here we go with the "A level athlete" discussion again lol.

That Hardy dude was supposedly be one of those and got knocked out by a fat dude who drinks beer from shoes.

 

[JustBleed69]

He's only 21 so send him to AKA, give him 2 years of training, 2-3 amateur bouts, 2-3 pro bouts in a smaller promotion, and if he walks through everyone sign him daddy Dana. At that point he will have 5 years of solid training and still only be in his mid 20s.

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

No one is getting PPV points besides champs and very special cases like Conor or the Diaz bros. Even legends like Anderson didn't get PPV points later on

Nick Diaz/Robbie Lawler should be getting majority of the ppv points at 266, the sole reason people are gunna buy it will be because of these two legends.

 

[Human Bass]

Not a wrestling expert. Would he fight at 205 or 265?

I know Ben Askren thinks very highly of him but Ben's opinion is usually rather extreme and factious.

He believed a good boxer was needed to beat him, instead he ate the canvass after a haymaker from a YouTuber .

265.

And the Askren boxing match has no hold whatsoever on how Gable would perform in mma.

 

[MeatWagon06]

Yes because HWs are renowned for their kicking ability lol

Did you see those headkicks Lewis threw? Perfect technique and execution. Gane was lucky to get out of the way.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I have no doubt that he would outwrestle Moldavsky on a wrestling mat, but this is MMA, not wrestling, and Moldavsky is a two-times combat sambo world champion with submission grappling skills and good standup, capable of mixing up wrestling and striking. When you have to wrestle while being thoughtful of your opponent's punches and kicks and submission attempts, things might not go as they would have on a wrestling mat.

On the other hand, UFC has literally no one who can grapple and wrestle on the same level as Moldavski. Ivanov is a cripple with dramatic injuries.

Moldavsky is a positioning stalling grappler, he hasn't subbed anyone since 2016.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

All I read is: "Dude, trust me, 6 months of training BJJ is enough to learn submission grappling on the same level as a sambo world champion". That's nonsense and is outright disrespectful. Gable is not going to learn how to grapple on the same level as someone who has competed in a submission grappling environment as his main martial art. Gable is not going to close the submission grappling gap and same goes for striking.

If you've seen how quickly Nicky Rodriguez was able to hang with elite level BJJ black belts in no gi with a lesser wrestling background than Gable then you'd see how quickly a big athletic high quality wrestler can be an absolute nightmare for even a lifetime BJJ practitioner.

 

[TerryBogard]

Gable is getting advice from Brock to make a bid war between danta and vince lol

 

[TerryBogard]

If Stevenson transition to MMA we'll see the first real A level athlete in the promotion.

Nonsense, what do you think Brock is? he is the greatest A level genetic freak athlete in sports ever.

 

[MCS]

He's like a young DC, but more accomplished wrestler. Body type. Agility and strength. And only 21. 260. Future GOAT.

 

[NoSmilez]

I hope he joins AKA and they build him up. Most likely he will take the Minnesota route. It's not that I don't like Greg Nelson or Sherk. They let Bork form deathclutch and it wasn't helpful towards development. Let Stevenson train a year with normies and learn the basics first.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

He's really signing with WWE imo. He's just stirring the pot so when the WWE makes it official, it's bigger news.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/gable-steveson-scouted-by-wwe.4198715/

 

[TerryBogard]

I hope he joins AKA and they build him up. Most likely he will take the Minnesota route. It's not that I don't like Greg Nelson or Sherk. They let Bork form deathclutch and it wasn't helpful towards development. Let Stevenson train a year with normies and learn the basics first.

What are you talking about? Greg Nelson is awesome and Brock only lost one match with Greg as a coach, the ones he lost Greg wasnt there, when Greg came back for the hunt fight Brock won again.