GSP's wrestling now that the Caucasians have taken over?

[NoSmilez]

There is a D1 4 time American from ATT that is currently in the amateurs. His name is Nickal something. He is pretty young too. He was preparing Masvidal against takedowns

 

[Shay Brennan]

GSP is thought to possess the best MMA wrestling in history. But he fought in a time when all we saw was american folkstyle. I can't help but to find GSP's wrestling not so great when I compare it to Dagestanis and Chechens.

I think that GSP's wrestling was the best at the time due to his wrestling's Soviet lineage (Montreal wrestling club is essentially an eastern euro diaspora club) . But now that we have that Caucasian benchmark, how does it rank?

In the open, it's still by far the best.

 

[Andy Capp]

I think it was more to do with his honesty to himself. Mentally on a different level. He knew what he was good at and what he wasn't good at.
He fought to his strengths.
He was always called boring by some but he wasn't going to be cowed by moronic fans or the UFC.

Indeed. Some people need to flap their yaps and say heinous shit to get people to want to watch them lose. He did that by being really fucking good, which is my preference.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

its frustrating knowing dana could have made the gsp khabib fight happen.

Then again, if gsp won, it would have been "the size difference" that was the rational for whatever happened.

 

[Shaquitas EBT]

Yep Koscheck, Hughes, Fitch, Shields and Big Rigg were all D1 wrestlers and Shields in particular is one of the best grapplers ever at WW.

Plus Prime BJ was no slouch either.

You didnt mention Sean Sherk...you know The Muscle Shark

 

[ChickenBrother]

There is a D1 4 time American from ATT that is currently in the amateurs. His name is Nickal something. He is pretty young too. He was preparing Masvidal against takedowns

Bo Nickal. He was a 3 x D1 champ and world U23 champ and placed 2nd at the 2020 U.S. olympic trials. Also had a grappling superfight with Gordan Ryan in 2019.

LOL he just got promoted to blue belt:

https://bjjtribes.com/wrestling-cha...promoted-to-blue-belt-in-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

You didnt mention Sean Sherk...you know The Muscle Shark

Sherk didn't wrestle in college but yeah his blast doubles were explosive AF. The Sherk who fought Benji Radach could take down the majority of WWs. Pity his knees and hips gave out and K1 Sherk was born.

 

[Dan Torrance]

This is something GSP said but I don't buy it. It just doesn't makes sense. There is nothing in kyokushin karate that translates into timing for lower body takedowns. Literally nothing.

I didn't realize he said that.

The Karate's emphasis on distance management and feints allowed him to be better equipped to time his take downs.

 

[HHJ]

I think really GSP's big talent was his ability to time his shots, the way he worked it into his standup to the degree he could catch someone coming forward.

The two best ever at that for me remain GSP and Arona.

Also Valentina Schevchenko although she seems to prefer trips over shots in her latest fights.

 

[HHJ]

GSP was a very good wrestler but was his opposition that good ( MMA grappling wise)?

Matt Hughes? BJ Penn? Jon Fitch?

 

[GeneTunney7]

i really do not think GSP's wrestling was all that and Big Rigg exposed that. He had great timing on his shot and ways to disguise it on under sized fighters like BJ Penn, his karate back ground made him more comfortable with the MMA distance than just wrestle boxers, but when he fought Kos or even Shields it essentially turned into a striking match. If GSP fought a guy like Khamzat, a true world class wrestler that can strike as well and has insane pressure, I think he would get his shit pushed in worse than Big Rigg did. I know GSP is a sacred cow to many fans, one of the best of all time, but I would take Usman and Khamzat over him, very likely Colby as well.

 

[ThunderStruck]

i really do not think GSP's wrestling was all that and Big Rigg exposed that. He had great timing on his shot and ways to disguise it on under sized fighters like BJ Penn, his karate back ground made him more comfortable with the MMA distance than just wrestle boxers, but when he fought Kos or even Shields it essentially turned into a striking match. If GSP fought a guy like Khamzat, a true world class wrestler that can strike as well and has insane pressure, I think he would get his shit pushed in worse than Big Rigg did. I know GSP is a sacred cow to many fans, one of the best of all time, but I would take Usman and Khamzat over him, very likely Colby as well.

You are new to mma.

 

[GeneTunney7]

You are new to mma.

Nope, not all, tho that is generally the go to with MMA fans when someone disagrees with their opinion<Lmaoo> "Your new....I know more than you" SMDH.

I already gave you plenty of evidence in my post as to why I do not feel GSP had the best wrestling ever. Oh, he out wrestled Dan Hardy and Carlo Condit?


GSP was still in his prime when he fought Big Rigg, but the game caught up to him. Is Big Rigg the best wrestler of all time? GSP was a very, very good MMA wrestler but no where near the best, not to mention his hay day was in the time when wrestlers could not strike and strikers could not wrestle. Every single media outlet gave Hendricks that fight 48-47 and then GSP bounced. GSP even agrees with me, that the game is evolving, moving on, and the fighters are getting better. Maybe you favor him over Usman but I sure do not, and I am glad to get into those reasons why to. Nostalgia for 'the good ole days' really does not count as sound reasoning in my book, sorry.

 

[Bjjpitbull8]

I was never a fan of GSP’s style, after the Serra rematch. He never again took a risk in fights he could have easily finished.

That said, he was the GOAT mma wrestler. Every single contender was supposed to be the guy to beat him, and then Gsp would dominate and run through them. He was so well rounded. He could take you down, use the threat of a takedown to jab your face off, or use kicks. I’m very apprehensive to compare any of these guys to him. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he wouldn’t have a game plan to make them look really underwhelming.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Nope, not all, tho that is generally the go to with MMA fans when someone disagrees with their opinion<Lmaoo> "Your new....I know more than you" SMDH.

I already gave you plenty of evidence in my post as to why I do not feel GSP had the best wrestling ever. Oh, he out wrestled Dan Hardy and Carlo Condit?


GSP was still in his prime when he fought Big Rigg, but the game caught up to him. Is Big Rigg the best wrestler of all time? GSP was a very, very good MMA wrestler but no where near the best, not to mention his hay day was in the time when wrestlers could not strike and strikers could not wrestle. Every single media outlet gave Hendricks that fight 48-47 and then GSP bounced. GSP even agrees with me, that the game is evolving, moving on, and the fighters are getting better. Maybe you favor him over Usman but I sure do not, and I am glad to get into those reasons why to. Nostalgia for 'the good ole days' really does not count as sound reasoning in my book, sorry.

Sorry bro but you exposed your lack of mma knowledge when you said that GSP's fights against Kos and Shields were only a striking match while totally disregarding GSP's gameplan which was, guess what? Keep it standing. He took Shields down once without breaking a sweat but didn't follow on the ground, knowing damn well it was shields only way to win.

So basically he stuffed all of Shields and Kos' attempts.

He also took down Alves at will, something both Hughes and Kos failed to do despite their many efforts.

Against Hendricks the wrestling was a stalemate. Both scored the same amount of takedowns and both struggled to keep the other down. How did that expose GSP? How did having a close fight against a Hendricks who refused any extra PED testing means the sport has passed GSP by? Come back when Chimaev fights someone of the caliber of prime hendricks.

He took Hughes down at will. Bisping down at will at MW.

You don't seem to know shit about mma.

 

[zumbulare]

GSP was not best wrestler and he did not need to be, he competed in MMA not wrestling. What he was very good at is using parts of wrestling, adopting it to mma and his style of fighting and being extremely effective at it.

 

[GeneTunney7]

Sorry bro but you exposed your lack of mma knowledge when you said that GSP's fights against Kos and Shields were only a striking match while totally disregarding GSP's gameplan which was, guess what? Keep it standing. He took Shields down once without breaking a sweat but didn't follow on the ground, knowing damn well it was shields only way to win.

So basically he stuffed all of Shields and Kos' attempts.

He also took down Alves at will, something both Hughes and Kos failed to do despite their many efforts.

Against Hendricks the wrestling was a stalemate. Both scored the same amount of takedowns and both struggled to keep the other down. How did that expose GSP? How did having a close fight against a Hendricks who refused any extra PED testing means the sport has passed GSP by? Come back when Chimaev fights someone of the caliber of prime hendricks.

He took Hughes down at will. Bisping down at will at MW.

You don't seem to know shit about mma.

Lmao, again with the put down pissing contests <Lmaoo>

i did not bring up Kos and Shields to prove that GSP's wrestling failed, I brought them up because the above claim was GSP was the best MMA wrestler ever, which I disagreed with, and implied those two opponents were actually known for their wrestling, unlike many of the other opponents GSP out wrestler. Someone like Jones outwrestled DC, who was an Olympic wrestler, Khabib ragdolled D1 all American Gaethje and finished him on the ground. GSP does not have such a feather in his cap, that is my point.

"Against Hendricks the wrestling was a stalemate. Both scored the same amount of takedowns and both struggled to keep the other down. How did that expose GSP?"

That exposes him as not being the best MMA wrestler all time. A truly GOAT MMA wrestler would be able to outwrestle a guy like Hendricks. That fight, IMO, was a clear Hendricks win, the striking, clinch, damage, even if they were equal on TD's (TD's are just 1 tiny component of wrestling). Never said GSP was not an incredible MMA wrestler, just that he was not the best. And even he and Hendricks were even, would anyone consider Hendricks the best MMA wrestler of all time?

Do not buy the: "Hendricks refused to take PED tests either' - again, you expose your lack of knowledge: GSP wanted USADA, which we now know is corrupt and lets big stars like Jones have a certain set of rules, and Johnnie wanted WADA.

Taking 8th/6th placed NCAA Hughes down does not do it for me on the all time GOAT wrestler, nor does taking down Bisping, something many did. He also was getting so beat up from the bottom with Bisping that he had to stand up. A truly 'best wrestler ever' does not need to lay in guard and get bloodied up, they can pass and dominate from those positions, like we saw Khabib and Isla an am do, Usman do to Woodley, and are now seeing Chimaev do.....there is more to wrestling than takedowns, which is why I also expressly pointed out GSP's real strength was the timing on his takedowns, not the clinch game, passing game or chain wrestling game.

"Come back when Chimaev fights someone of the caliber of prime Hendricks."

You might want to check up who Aliskerov is and his grappling pedigree - aside from Khabib, he was the only Combat Sambo World Champ-Champ to enter in MMA recently, and did it at 191 pounds. I am not making the case that Chimaev is more accomplished than GSP, I am stating that the game moves (as GSP even said) and that fighters are getting better with time. We will see how far Chimaev makes on it, but I think he will be champion, and could even be champion today regardless of who he beat to prove it to you. The guy is rumored to get the better of HW Gus in the gym and is on video dropping him with a body shot.....that is not something that welterweights do, nm when they have a national champion wrestling pedigree behind them.

 

[nhbfan8080]

Lots of americans chain wrestle. Frankie in his prime was good at it, Askren made a career off of it, Weidman was good at it, prime maia made a living off his single leg chain series, etc etc. The issue is, as others have mentioned, good mat grappling has somewhat fallen out of fashion in MMA these days in preference of strong tdd and striking. These caucus guys are just reminding us of what we already knew ten plus years ago.

This sums the situation up better than I could:

Khabib also had to brush up his chain wrestling game at AKA after getting stalled by Tibau in his first fight.

 

[HaulParris]

What's crazy is his background is actually Karate. Never had high school/collegiate wrestling experience, and never wrestled until he started MMA. Meanwhile, this wrestling skill of his is being compared to the guys of today who have been doing it since they were like 4. I think that's just something worth pointing out. It reflects his pure talent and skill, and the work he's put in on how fast he learned to reach a certain level though he didn't started at a very young age. If his MMA wrestling has been widely considered as one of the best for years, could you imagine if he started doing it when he was a kid?

100% correct

 

[NoSmilez]

Bo Nickal. He was a 3 x D1 champ and world university champ and placed 2nd at the 2020 U.S. olympic trials. Also had a grappling superfight with Gordan Ryan in 2019.

LOL he just got promoted to blue belt:

https://bjjtribes.com/wrestling-cha...promoted-to-blue-belt-in-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

He should be fun in the future. I hope ATT builds him up correctly. I don't want a strong grappler to turn into a good striker.

 

[bambambigelow]

GSP is still the best. Having been a fighter before he learned wrestling, he adapted parts of wrestling to work in MMA whereas guys like Khamzat use their wrestling instincts in an MMA fight. GSP's takedowns are smoother. He uses leverage more than strength. When he grabs a hold of your legs that's it, you're going down easily. He knows how to adjust to slippery limbs too. Khamzat ends up having to pick up guys to slam them after failed TD attempts. He doesn't know what else to do if a guy is too oily.