News * UFC doubled it's profits in 2022. Fighter pay up 26 % since 2005 !

[jitzmonkey]

Compare that with the 48% of revenue given to NFL players and you can see why fighters are pissed.

The UFC is nowhere near the size of the 'real' professional leagues.

That said (just go with me here,) and keep in mind, I'm an ex Wall St. guy which is one reason that I see it this way:

Growth (see 'start-up' as well) companies <The UFC is/was definitely that in the recent past> never pay large salaries to their founding 'employees;' so I understand the low pay.

What they do, is typically work out a profit sharing agreement (and I'm not talking about needing to be financially savvy to be included in said agreement) in various forms including directly distributed shares, stock options, or 401k contributions, etc... that end up paying off (and in many cases only becoming available) very well way down the road.

That's where I believe that the UFC is F'd up. I'm not sure when, but the point at which that could've began, was a long time ago.

And not all shares need to be voting shares; which precludes meaningful dilution (real owners of stock having less say.)

 

[jitzmonkey]

Fucking lol. Quick check on inflation calculator shows 50% increase since then.

Only 26% wage growth means fighters made more money in 2005 than now rofl

But "the cream rises to the top."

And yes, I hate that saying; and all that it implies.

 

[greatsantini]

Not sure where the doubled it’s profits is coming from? Their EBITDA is $523 million, up $100 million from the previous year. The money left over from distributions, basically their profits, is apparently around $367 million.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Compare that with the 48% of revenue given to NFL players and you can see why fighters are pissed.

Isn't it different because the NFL has teams, though? Each team has its own stadium, its own uniforms, its own players, etc. The NFL doesn't have to rent out arenas to play the games in and gets tons of money from sponsors through commercials - which of course are absent on PPVs. I could be completely wrong, since I don't know anything about the budgets and balance sheets of either organization, but to me it's comparing apples and oranges.

A more relevant comparison would probably be boxing. What percentage of revenue from the parent company do boxers receive?

 

[Shidlord]

Double-digit growth isn't "doubled their profits"

it's anywhere from +10% to +99% but not +100% (doubling)

so it could be very close to doubling, or only 1/10 of doubling.

But "revenue" isn't "profits" anyway unless it says "net revenue" so I'm not sure where TS got profits "doubled"

TS simply does not understand accounting terms

 

[pudgelarson36]

It would be really nice if everyone posting their opinion could at least decipher the difference between revenue and profit.

 

[avenue94]

The UFC is nowhere near the size of the 'real' professional leagues.

That said (just go with me here,) and keep in mind, I'm an ex Wall St. guy which is one reason that I see it this way:

Growth (see 'start-up' as well) companies <The UFC is/was definitely that in the recent past> never pay large salaries to their founding 'employees;' so I understand the low pay.

What they do, is typically work out a profit sharing agreement (and I'm not talking about needing to be financially savvy to be included in said agreement) in various forms including directly distributed shares, stock options, or 401k contributions, etc... that end up paying off (and in many cases only becoming available) very well way down the road.

That's where I believe that the UFC is F'd up. I'm not sure when, but the point at which that could've began, was a long time ago.

And not all shares need to be voting shares; which precludes meaningful dilution (real owners of stock having less say.)

Except the UFC did pay huge sums to founders during its growth phase, it just happens they don't see fighters as part of the "family"

 

[avenue94]

Isn't it different because the NFL has teams, though? Each team has its own stadium, its own uniforms, its own players, etc. The NFL doesn't have to rent out arenas to play the games in and gets tons of money from sponsors through commercials - which of course are absent on PPVs. I could be completely wrong, since I don't know anything about the budgets and balance sheets of either organization, but to me it's comparing apples and oranges.

A more relevant comparison would probably be boxing. What percentage of revenue from the parent company do boxers receive?

About 60 to 70, depending on if you break it down by event or annually. Headliners usually command about 4 times the cut of event revenue compared to ufc headliners

 

[Holli]

Jesus only 17% of their revenue is going to the fighters?

If you don't like this model. GO START YOUR OWN PROMOTION.

 

[Holli]

please stop making threads like this. how else is dana going to bring fake snow to his house?

 

[jitzmonkey]

Except the UFC did pay huge sums to founders during its growth phase, it just happens they don't see fighters as part of the "family"

Who did they pay?
It's still in its growth phase.

We've just all been following the sport for so long that we remember the dark days when there was no money and it was going bankrupt and changing hands like a blunt.

 

[greatsantini]

Who did they pay?
It's still in its growth phase.

We've just all been following the sport for so long that we remember the dark days when there was no money and it was going bankrupt and changing hands like a blunt.

Who did they pay? Uh, the fertittas walked away with billions when they sold. On top of the hundreds of millions they paid themselves while owners.

 

[KOPPE]

 

[Lemmy Caution]

I am NOT one to moan about fighter pay (anymore) but 26% increase in 17 yrs is a bit laugable. It's not even keeping up with inflation, lol. So fighters are actually being paid less in today's dollars, than in 2005.

Again, I'm not one to complain about another man's pay anymore but this is not a thing to boast about.

It's not the pay per se. We understand why elite soccer, basketball players etc. make lots of money. Those sports are huge. It's about getting a fair share. Be it a fair share of $100 or $100-million.

To refer to something I know a little bit about. The minimum salary in the NHL is $850,000. There's nothing "right" about that number. It is based on revenue. The more the NHL makes, the more everybody involved in it make.

It's ultimately on the fighters. There are two things that should happen in my opinion. Unionize and put an end to undisclosed pay. Undisclosed pay is straight out of the mafia playbook. It's seedy.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Ok then, WWE ( Non Sport League ) starting salary is around 250k for a spot on the main roster.

And they are already poaching top talent at that rate. What say you?

The WWE is as bad or worse than the UFC honestly, the UFC learned a lot of their shitty business practices from the WWE

 

[avenue94]

Who did they pay?
It's still in its growth phase.

We've just all been following the sport for so long that we remember the dark days when there was no money and it was going bankrupt and changing hands like a blunt.

Fertitas and Dana got their first huge dividends within a few years of TUF. A lot of people don't realize that significant portions of the UFC's debt are from dividend payments over the years.

At what point would you call the UFC out of it's growth phase?

 

[FIghtxIQ]

It's a good day for loan companies

They'll clear the loans in a couple of years. It's not a problem as they are growing UFC even more. They just need new stars to help keep pushing UFC into the mainstream. Their loans were only a couple billion and they make over 1 billion in revenue a year. That's better numbers than other companies that get major loans.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Fighters are too dumb to form a union.

Dana knows this, pushes that “lone wolf” mentality and the fighters play right into it.

Its a damn shame that Dana is worth almost a billion while most fighters grow old with health issues and retire with barely any money.

A lot of fighters make millions. If they end up broke it's their money management. The pay can be a lot better though for fighters. They need to eventually catch up to boxing pay.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Clearly they aren’t paying the fighters enough so it should be easy for any one of you geniuses to go get some investors and enter the market.

It's not just about the money, it's also about the connections. That matters. WME has Hollywood/Disney/ESPN connects. That's what brought UFC mainstream. Any other promotion trying to compete would need some major connections/networks as well.

The best option is to not directly compete with UFC/MMA so they can still use those same connections and network so there won't be a conflict of interest. Probably a hybrid promotion would be best. Whatever they are working on with Tyson Fury and Ngannou could be next big thing. All striking/boxing with no grappling in a cage with mma gloves or bigger gloves like what Triller Triad uses. This way they can try to get it on ESPN as well and still have the same promotion/networks from Disney/Hollywood.

That would also allow for a lot of cross over fights between boxers and boxing promotions. If they don't want the smaller gloves then boxing gloves in a cage. This would make for a lot of action and casuals prefer the striking over the grappling so it would be easier for the casuals to get into. This is why something like Bare Knuckle was able to come out of nowhere and be successful.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Fighters are too dumb to form a union.

Dana knows this, pushes that “lone wolf” mentality and the fighters play right into it.

Its a damn shame that Dana is worth almost a billion while most fighters grow old with health issues and retire with barely any money.

They're not dumb lol, the majority of everyone understands a union is needed.

It's just the dynamics of how it's set up, it's totally different than the NFL or the NBA, it's more like the WWE which is the same thing, nobody has ever made a union work for the same reasons as the UFC.

The UFC will punish anyone who signs or even talks about a union, and fighters are spread all across the world, competing in an individual sport... nobody wants to potentially sacrifice their own career which makes sense from their perspective.