News * UFC doubled it's profits in 2022. Fighter pay up 26 % since 2005 !

[RicardinhoPT]

WME invested billions in a 50% ebitda company, there is no way they're changing that unless the law demands it. I can't believe people still don't understand that by now...

 

[FIghtxIQ]

It would be really nice if everyone posting their opinion could at least decipher the difference between revenue and profit.

The point is their revenue is still over a billion a year. They aren't making any real profits until their debt is paid off. It's the same thing with people working but paying off loans, there's no profit since everything is at a negative overall but they will eventually be able to pay everything off given a certain amount of time. With that kind of revenue a year and only a couple billion in debt, it's not going to take them long to clear that. It'll be faster than most companies that get loans with similar amounts of money.

 

[greatsantini]

The point is their revenue is still over a billion a year. They aren't making any real profits until their debt is paid off. It's the same thing with people working but paying off loans, there's no profit since everything is at a negative overall but they will eventually be able to pay everything off given a certain amount of time. With that kind of revenue a year and only a couple billion in debt, it's not going to take them long to clear that. It'll be faster than most companies that get loans with similar amounts of money.

What?

 

[pick999]

Jesus only 17% of their revenue is going to the fighters?

Imagine lebron making 500k a year

 

[jitzmonkey]

Who did they pay? Uh, the fertittas walked away with billions when they sold. On top of the hundreds of millions they paid themselves while owners.

Right, so you thought that I was talking about the owners as opposed to fighters, support staff, etc...

That's interesting.

Also, he referred to founders in his comment. I was (maybe incorrectly, IDK) under the impression that the Gracie family, Bob Meyrewitz and company had no longer been benefitting directly from the UFC.
Further, I used to term 'founding employees;' which seems was conflated a bit with the term 'owners' in his reply; which wasn't my intention.

Thanks for responding, though. The Great Santini was a great book!

Fertitas and Dana got their first huge dividends within a few years of TUF. A lot of people don't realize that significant portions of the UFC's debt are from dividend payments over the years.

At what point would you call the UFC out of it's growth phase?

That's a fair question that's always better answered in hindsight.

I'm guessing (probably pretty obvious) that we'll see a lot more growth in East Asia, We'll see lots of growth (compared to what we see <or don't see> now) in Africa, still further saturation in Europe, along with events in major cities in Mexico, fight nights in smaller Canadian cities, more events in the APAC regions, along with fight nights in Chile/Peru/etc...

Until all of those things (or at least the majority of the saturation) come to fruition, I'd call it a growth company.

It could plateau here forever, though.
You never know.

Of course, there are other ways to grow the business, too; so...

Edit: As an aside; re UFC's debt: I want to say that I remember reading that some place. My guess is it when my idiot Sr. Broker tried pitching the bonds. I believe that they were junk (but just barely) and at a decent discount. My concern wasn't the yield, more so the liquidity; so I never pitched them to clients. We're talking like 2014, though.
Funny enough, the same guy told me not to buy more $TSLA back then. I'm glad I didn't listen; and glad I left.

It would be really nice if everyone posting their opinion could at least decipher the difference between revenue and profit.

It's Sherdog.
I think you gotta aim lower, bud.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

What?

Read it again so you understand it. People know what revenue and profits is, and people know how much they asked for in a loan in the initial purchase. All major buy outs have backers and loans involved. This isn't something that just happened with this business deal. Even Elon Musk buy out of Twitter he has backers for the other half of the asking price. Even though he could afford it all himself. Major buys like this have multiple hands in the pot.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

If you mean my calculations, they are correct. Another poster put up a screenshot of an inflation calculator and inflation is up 36% since 2005.

If you mean calculations of 26% in 17 yrs, another poster pointed out that they allegedly got 26% increase annually, although I can't say whether or not that's true.

I was referring to the conversation generally

It's not the pay per se. We understand why elite soccer, basketball players etc. make lots of money. Those sports are huge. It's about getting a fair share. Be it a fair share of $100 or $100-million.

To refer to something I know a little bit about. The minimum salary in the NHL is $850,000. There's nothing "right" about that number. It is based on revenue. The more the NHL makes, the more everybody involved in it make.

It's ultimately on the fighters. There are two things that should happen in my opinion. Unionize and put an end to undisclosed pay. Undisclosed pay is straight out of the mafia playbook. It's seedy.

I agree. Everything is bargained for in life. You don’t just get the girl you want or the money you want or the other things that you want because someone decides that it’s fair and gives it to you. NHL players get what they get because they bargain for it. Fighters bargain for their comp too, but they aren’t doing it with any method to the madness, so they’re coming out behind where many think they “should” be (whatever that means).

(Plenty of companies don’t make their salaries public knowledge FWIW, but I get that you’re comparing it to other sports organizations).

 

[jitzmonkey]

I was referring to the conversation generally


I agree. Everything is bargained for in life. You don’t just get the girl you want or the money you want or the other things that you want because someone decides that it’s fair and gives it to you. NHL players get what they get because they bargain for it. Fighters bargain for their comp too, but they aren’t doing it with any method to the madness, so they’re coming out behind where many think they “should” be (whatever that means).

(Plenty of companies don’t make their salaries public knowledge FWIW, but I get that you’re comparing it to other sports organizations).

GTFO with your well reasoned and thoughtful responses!

 

[greatsantini]

Read it again so you understand it. People know what revenue and profits is, and people know how much they asked for in a loan in the initial purchase. All major buy outs have backers and loans involved. This isn't something that just happened with this business deal. Even Elon Musk buy out of Twitter he has backers for the other half of the asking price. Even though he could afford it all himself. Major buys like this have multiple hands in the pot.

OK reread it and it still doesn't make sense. Debt is deducted from the valuation not the profits. Interest payments on that debt is what's deducted from earning and what's left is your profits. The UFC also isn't paying off their debt but are instead taking on more debt to give to Endeavor. But even with all that debt and the interest they have to pay on it they are still seeing profits around 370m or so.

 

[MillingMeSoftly]

Misleading thread title

26% is fake

 

[Luckyme]

Fighters are too dumb to form a union.

Dana knows this, pushes that “lone wolf” mentality and the fighters play right into it.

Its a damn shame that Dana is worth almost a billion while most fighters grow old with health issues and retire with barely any money.

According to Tim Kennedy, most fighters are receptive to unionization but fear of retribution by the UFC killed past efforts.

 

[Sticko]

A lot of fighters make millions. If they end up broke it's their money management. The pay can be a lot better though for fighters. They need to eventually catch up to boxing pay.

Very few UFC fighters are millionaires. Out of the whole roster there are way more guys who have to work a second job than there are millionaires.

 

[mudrubble]

It's not the pay per se. We understand why elite soccer, basketball players etc. make lots of money. Those sports are huge. It's about getting a fair share. Be it a fair share of $100 or $100-million.

To refer to something I know a little bit about. The minimum salary in the NHL is $850,000. There's nothing "right" about that number. It is based on revenue. The more the NHL makes, the more everybody involved in it make.

It's ultimately on the fighters. There are two things that should happen in my opinion. Unionize and put an end to undisclosed pay. Undisclosed pay is straight out of the mafia playbook. It's seedy.

Agreed. You get what you fight for in life. I think most fighters, with limited time on their hands, have the choice between "eat, train, sleep, repeat, chase your dreams" or fighting legal battles they will likely lose and being sidelined or diminished.

I understand their choice not to engage in the legal wrangling. So I understand their decision to accept the pay scale. Especially if they think they are good enough to climb the ranks. If they think they can become champ it might be the better spend of their time. Well, given their chance of winning a court case, it's almost definitely going to be the better spend of their time.

Life is chock full of tough choices like these.

 

[skylolow]

Hard to blame the owners. That is there job to maximize profits while still putting out a product that the consumer and media partners expect.

Like in most sports eventually the time will come that the athletes will band together and do something about it. Since it's kind of a niche sport there really isn't much outside pressure and probably never will be. NFL it wasn't until 1956 and football was around for decades before that and it really wasn't until the late 70's to mid 80's that the Union really accomplished big things for the athletes. Even in the 70's most players still had jobs in the off season. MLB was like the late 50's to mid 60's when they formed. MLB was around for decades before that also. For the UFC we are what about 15 years in of them even making money with this sport to have anything to share. I'm sure the UFC fighter's time will come and I'm sure the owners expect it.

 

[Azure]

Yay, Another fighter pay thread.

 

[tastaylvr]

WME invested billions in a 50% ebitda company, there is no way they're changing that unless the law demands it. I can't believe people still don't understand that by now...

Ebitda is irrelevant in the hyper growth era

Sports are billion dollar businesses due to athlete popularity

The sport wont hit the nba NFL level without paying their athletes big bucks

It is actually such a short term play to pay athletes so low it makes the sport look amateur

 

[tastaylvr]

The point is their revenue is still over a billion a year. They aren't making any real profits until their debt is paid off. It's the same thing with people working but paying off loans, there's no profit since everything is at a negative overall but they will eventually be able to pay everything off given a certain amount of time. With that kind of revenue a year and only a couple billion in debt, it's not going to take them long to clear that. It'll be faster than most companies that get loans with similar amounts of money.

This is an ignorant post lol

They are seperate companies

It has nothing to do with each other and no company pays off their debts

This isnt how it works lol

This is about growth not about making a profit

Imagine lebron making 500k a year

Good comparison as well

Since the ufc alone is worth the same as nba team

 

[Tweak896]

UFC as a solo entity is very profitable and can afford to pay all their fighters more. Its WME who is holding so much toxic debt and running UFC dry to repay those other bad holdings which is the problem.

It's fine to say "fighters should be paid more", but unless you're an accountant or can crunch some numbers you really need to get the big picture. Had the Ferttitas held the UFC pay would be up much more.

WME is clinging onto the UFC for dear life, and if they don't maintain the profit, they will go bankrupt from everything else. So you're asking them to shoot their last golden goose among a bunch of rotten eggs. Which is why we won't see shit happen until they are forced to sell the UFC to a profitable company in a healthy position. Even still they will have to recoup costs for the purchase.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

The UFC’s revenues for the 1st Quarter of 2022 were over $1 billion in the Last Twelve Months (April 1st, 2021 through March 31, 2022).

* This is double digit growth from the previous year.

* Fighter pay had increased 26% since 2005.
- Lubin also disclosed that fighter pay had increased 26% CAGR since 2005. Since we also know what total fighter pay was in 2005 — $4.3 million — total fighter pay would have been around $178.8 million last year. That would be just 17.5% of their total revenue.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2022/6/...a-year-minimal-costs-and-more-growth-expected

Great job by Dana to keep wages down and grow profits. He should be making 30 million a year instead of 25. He's also kept fighters from having healthcare, long-term healthcare, profit sharing and pensions. He's very smart and the fighters aren't. Dana is the GOAT businessman of sports.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

Compare that with the 48% of revenue given to NFL players and you can see why fighters are pissed.

will you stop comparing apples and oranges.. one team sport one is PRIZE fighting
one has colleges prepping new players basically for free... the UFC been pushing and paying to expand the MMA they so diff in model, in play, and revenue ...