• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

International European officials say 'sabotage' likely cause of suspicious Nord Stream leaks

As far as I understand it, Russia have the ability to just turn the taps on and off at will. I’m not sure what benefit or motive they would have to blowing up their own pipelines.

Granted, I could be wrong.

No benefits for Russia. My speculation is this cuts off any incentive for germany to cave in to russia or tell US to fuck off over the winter. There would have been political pressure by Germans to resume gas flow.
 
This the guy whose statements we should take as being set in stone?

308499618_645499437035986_1642587457211392037_n.png

Well when he promises to destroy a pipeline he could easily destroy and then its destroyed, yes. The government is more than just the president.
 


Can you articulate your argument without the help of a YouTube video? I'm not watching something withe "meme" in the title.

What is their simple message?

That they can reach out and touch underwater infrastructure at will. That they can disrupt energy in multiple ways. Duh.

You guys would be infuriating laundromat owners for the mob. They sent all those guys in track suits to intemidate you, but you're still blaming the fire on the police lol!
 
Can you articulate your argument without the help of a YouTube video? I'm not watching something withe "meme" in the title.



That they can reach out and touch underwater infrastructure at will. That they can disrupt energy in multiple ways. Duh.

You guys would be infuriating laundromat owners for the mob. They sent all those guys in track suits to intemidate you, but you're still blaming the fire on the police lol!

Interesting you go straight to insults as a reaction to a simple question :rolleyes:
 
Seems odd for Russia to sabotage their own pipeline. They literally can just shut it down.. why bother ?

Not only that. Why would Russia give up one of their biggest threats before winter arrives?

It makes very little sense for Russia to sabotage one of the few things they can hold over the eu
 
Interesting you go straight to insults as a reaction to a simple question :rolleyes:

Tbf I did did answer your question, albeit it with bewilderment and in a snarky manner. I shouldn't do that though you are right. My bad.

Just seems strange to think America would physically attack EU energy infrastructure rather than the country the EU is essentially at war with. A country that has made very obvious attempts to have its drones be seen near critical assets numerous times over the last year or so. The insinuation was obvious then and even more so now. There is sooo much more shit they could disable and they want everyone to know that.. underwater cables, wind turbines, power plants, etc. This is like a warning shot compared to what they could further do.
 
Tbf I did did answer your question, albeit it with bewilderment and in a snarky manner. I shouldn't do that though you are right. My bad.

Just seems strange to think America would physically attack EU energy infrastructure rather than the country the EU is essentially at war with. A country that has made very obvious attempts to have its drones be seen near critical assets numerous times over the last year or so. The insinuation was obvious then and even more so now. There is sooo much more shit they could disable and they want everyone to know that.. underwater cables, wind turbines, power plants, etc. This is like a warning shot compared to what they could further do.

Ok fair enough then, you shouldn't assume someone asking to clarify your position isn't always an attack.

The arguments for Americans doing it is it reduces Russian leverage over Europe and means Germany can't cave and try negotiate for gas if things get hard later on. There is also the American saying the pipeline would be stopped one way or another. This is what I've read and don't care enough to debate it either way before you expect that.
 
The arguments for Americans doing it is it reduces Russian leverage over Europe and means Germany can't cave and try negotiate for gas if things get hard later on. There is also the American saying the pipeline would be stopped one way or another. This is what I've read and don't care enough to debate it either way before you expect that.

Sorry, but that is just silly. America is not going to risk a 70 year old military alliance to shut down a single pipe. They have many other political levers they can pull if they really wanted to do that right now. They don't though because this will just add instability to energy markets, push prices higher, and hurt the white house domestically. It's very very obvious who has been telegraphing this exact move for a while now, its the Russians. They will be able to fix the pipeline this is just a little demonstration.
 
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/09/nord-stream-leaks-underline-gray-zone-risks/377701/
860x394.jpg

One of three natural-gas leaks from Russia's Nord Stream 2 pipeline in the Baltic Sea, as photographed from a Danish F-16 based on the island of Bornholm on Sept. 26 or 27, 2022. DANISH DEFENCE

IDEAS
Nord Stream Leaks Underline Gray-Zone Risks
Damaging a neighbor’s environment can be easy, cheap, and deniable.
ELISABETH BRAW

|
SEPTEMBER 27, 2022 02:58 PM ET

Around noon local time on September 27, Denmark’s armed forces released footage of leaks in the Baltic Sea. And it wasn’t just any leaks: Russia’s Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 natural-gas pipelines are leaking gas into the Baltic Sea. The day before, Danish and Swedish government agencies had registered unexplained submarine explosions. Russia, it’s becoming clear, is sabotaging its own pipelines – but the more lasting harm will be done to its Baltic Sea neighbors, who are now left with serious damage to their marine environment. But leaking pipelines don’t constitute military aggression. Causing environmental damage constitutes cunning gray-zone aggression – and like all gray-zone aggression, it’s extremely difficult to counter.

The first hint of trouble came around 2 a.m. local time on Monday, when maritime seismic monitors belonging to Swedish Maritime Administration and the Danish Maritime Authority registered mysterious submarine explosions. Around twelve hours later, the crew of a vessel reported leaks on the water surface. Then around 7 p.m., the monitors picked up more explosions, and a little over an hour later reports of new leaks arrived. The explosions and the leaks turned out to be in the same area.

Scandinavian seismological experts and political leaders already agree that the explosions were a deliberate act. Who set them off? In theory, it might have been terrorists or other political extremists, but these lack the technical expertise to stage such sabotage; moreover, it is unclear why they would invest enormous effort and time into sabotage for little apparent gain.

Vladimir Putin—have invoked the nuclear specter in an effort to scare Western governments into ending their military support of Ukraine. But it hasn’t worked. Now Russia seems to be testing a new strategy: quietly causing harm to the Baltic Sea, a tiny ocean that is already extremely dirty. In addition to the damage done by commercial shipping, there’s the systematic flow of pollution from Kaliningrad. For years, and despite pleas by Russia’s Baltic Sea neighbors, the Russian exclave was simply pumping its sewage into the sea. In 2016, a sewage plant co-financed by the Swedish International Development Agency became operational—but most of the Baltic Sea’s environmental-damage hotspots remain located off Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg. (Baltic states and Poland: you could be doing better too.)

And now, a gas leak. “The gas in the Nord Stream pipes is basically methane, which is a much stronger polluter than CO2, about 29 times stronger,” noted Jaakko Henttonen, a Finnish maritime-environment expert who has for years been involved in Baltic Sea states’ efforts to clean up their ocean. “According to the news so far, the leaks are significant.”

parks itself in countries’ exclusive economic zones—where local fishermen earn their livelihoods—and casts their immense nets until the seas are empty. The vessel army then departs, having not only depleted the fish stocks but also harmed the seabed. And off the coast of Taiwan’s Matsu islands, Chinese excavators have for years been digging up sand. The practice presents the Taiwanese government with the constant headache trespassers that do harm but don’t engage in military aggression; Taipei has been forced to invest in an outsized coast-guard fleet. But in addition to being a nuisance, the dredgers cause harm to Taiwan’s maritime wildlife and its seabed. They often also manage to take the sand with them, a not-negligible benefit given that sand is becoming rarer, mostly as a result of China’s massive construction boom.

The Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 leaks are not yet a massive environmental disaster like the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill, which saw 11 million gallons of oil to leak into the waters off Alaska. But the leaks will create environmental harm, which Sweden, Denmark and any other good-willing Baltic Sea countries will have to tackle as best as they can. Like overfishing in other countries’ waters, causing gas leaks in their waters is not as dramatic as military aggression, but it causes harm all the same. Because it’s not military aggression, though, it’s virtually impossible to defend oneself against. Countries won’t send long-distance fishing fleets to Chinese waters to teach China a deterrence lesson, nor will they cause explosions to any of their own pipelines that might be located near Russian waters.

Causing environmental harm is, in fact, brilliant yet utterly cynical gray-zone aggression. And because regimes like those of Russia and China—not to mention North Korea or Belarus—are utterly cynical, we can expect more along these lines (no pun intended). More holes in Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2, for example.
 
it's most likely the americans, attacking european infrastructure.
how cool.
Ursula acting tough, if it turns out it's indeed the americans, she won't say shit about the matter anymore
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but that is just silly. America is not going to risk a 70 year old military alliance to shut down a single pipe. They have many other political levers they can pull if they really wanted to do that right now. They don't though because this will just add instability to energy markets, push prices higher, and hurt the white house domestically. It's very very obvious who has been telegraphing this exact move for a while now, its the Russians. They will be able to fix the pipeline this is just a little demonstration.
The Russians blew up their own pipeline to prove they can do it. They could easily just turn the flow of gas off.
We should remember almost everybody opposed that pipeline except Russia and Germany.
 
The Russians blew up their own pipeline to prove they can do it. They could easily just turn the flow of gas off.
We should remember almost everybody opposed that pipeline except Russia and Germany.

You think KGB is so stupid like you?
They are capable even to blow up some oil refinery in Germany ....

* there already is proof that you are fool.

1. Russia instead to use direct threat to close valves....had used excuse that compressors aren't working properly....
2. Then they get that despite sanctions Canada had delivered compressor after repair.
3. Then Russia refused to sign ppa that they get compressor...
4. With this they get excuse that pipeline does have low flow....


Do you think that they can't do the same with pipelines in Germany?

Maybe they are able to do even more....m

KGB isn't so naive like you are.
False flag operations etc is routine .......

Ha ha.
 
Back
Top