Dustin Poirier is a top 4 LW ever. Yay or Nay?

[mkt]

To each his own but Edgar, etc. would never have been the best LW the planet if he was Khabib’s age. It’s just dumb luck.

I'm not sure what that means. I think Edgar was too small to be dominant, GSP-style champion with 10 title defenses or something at LW...even if he didn't get robbed in the Bendo rematch. But he still had a great career. And for years he beat all the best guys at FW except Aldo...up until his mid-30s, which is very unusual.

I don't see an era where Poirier would be dominant for years, either. Remember, he got finished by MJ and had a pretty competitive fight with Dan Hooker for 5 rounds. And his wrestling is pretty weak. See the Khabib fight as well as an old MIchael Chandler easy winning a round against him using wrestling.

 

[mkt]

Yeah, I agree that Poirier is not top 4, or top 5, or *maybe* not even top 10.

I notice that you only count UFC belts though—my top 10 LWs includes Melendez, Gomi, and Aoki. Sherk and Jens don’t make my top 10, personally. Both great fighters though, and Sherk was a goddamn animal.

I don't put Aoki there because he really flopped when he got to fight in Strikeforce (and still in his late 20s). He was manhandled by Melendez and KO'd quickly by Alvarez in their rematch. He was good in the JMMA scene where he could submit or beat most guys (except Hellboy). But prime BJ would've been a nightmare for him, and I see some other UFC guys from his era beating him. His striking was weak and his wrestling wasn't good enough to take down really competent grapplers. Not sure about Gomi either as both BJ and Nick Diaz submitted him in his prime.

 

[Ironheart]

This list is spot on. I think Kamaru could have passed Hughes, but he wasted two title defenses on Masvidal. If he somehow gets the belt back? That conversation might need to happen.

Great list. People sleep on Shields' resume as well

GSP
Hughes
Usman
Fitch
Shields

I am not putting Pat Miletich in there as some sort of token placeholder. Edwards still has a way to go before he enters this conversation. People would love to put Nick Diaz top 10 but he was not facing elite competition for the majority of his career. Hendricks, Woodley, and Lawler all somewhere in the top 10. Maia definitely a top 15 at worst.

 

[Ironheart]

I have Dustin in the top 10, but the division is so full of talented legends. I think I'd say he's in the #7 range at the minute but could rise if he keeps winning.

 

[BFoe]

I don't put Aoki there because he really flopped when he got to fight in Strikeforce (and still in his late 20s). He was manhandled by Melendez and KO'd quickly by Alvarez in their rematch. He was good in the JMMA scene where he could submit or beat most guys (except Hellboy). But prime BJ would've been a nightmare for him, and I see some other UFC guys from his era beating him. His striking was weak and his wrestling wasn't good enough to take down really competent grapplers. Not sure about Gomi either as both BJ and Nick Diaz submitted him in his prime.

I don’t think it’s fair to say he flopped in Strikeforce, he only had 2 fights there. He beat Lyle Beerbohm, and lost to Melendez. And sure, Alvarez quickly KOed him in the rematch (in a cage), but Aoki subbed Alvarez quickly in a ring.

I also don’t really rank based on who I believe someone could or couldn’t beat—I rank based on their actual resume. I think an argument can be made that Aoki doesn’t have the most amazing resume on Earth, but he has beaten dudes like Alvarez, Kawajiri, Caol Uno or Marcus Aurelio, and he’s won the title in most of the orgs he’s competed in: WAMMA LW champ, DREAM LW champ with multiple defenses, ONE LW champ with multiple defenses… so he occupies my #10 spot for those reasons. I def see the argument that he should be outside the top 10 though.

 

[mkt]

I don’t think it’s fair to say he flopped in Strikeforce, he only had 2 fights there. He beat Lyle Beerbohm, and lost to Melendez. And sure, Alvarez quickly KOed him in the rematch (in a cage), but Aoki subbed Alvarez quickly in a ring.

I also don’t really rank based on who I believe someone could or couldn’t beat—I rank based on their actual resume. I think an argument can be made that Aoki doesn’t have the most amazing resume on Earth, but he has beaten dudes like Alvarez, Kawajiri, Caol Uno or Marcus Aurelio, and he’s won the title in most of the orgs he’s competed in: WAMMA LW champ, DREAM LW champ with multiple defenses, ONE LW champ with multiple defenses… so he occupies my #10 spot for those reasons. I def see the argument that he should be outside the top 10 though.

Yeah, I can see that, but I mostly consider the era fighters are in. It's not fair to say how prime Aoki would do against Khabib or Islam, but there were LWs outside Japan in his time who could (and did) beat him. It's not as bad as Nick Diaz in Strikeforce (where Paul Daley was his only real legitimate win) but kind of the same principle.

 

[BFoe]

Yeah, I can see that, but I mostly consider the era fighters are in. It's not fair to say how prime Aoki would do against Khabib or Islam, but there were LWs outside Japan in his time who could (and did) beat him. It's not as bad as Nick Diaz in Strikeforce (where Paul Daley was his only real legitimate win) but kind of the same principle.

Oh man, I don’t really agree about Nick Diaz either (but full disclosure: I am a big Nick Diaz fan). But I do get what you’re saying: people like Cyborg, Smith, or Noons are solid wins to me but maybe not wins over elite guys.

 

[ZackZed]

A guy that never won the undisputed belt should never be a top 5 in any weight class.
Top 4 should be: BJ, Khabib, Gomi, and maybe RDA/Benson/Pettis.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Let's see how Dustin looks against Nick Diaz, GSP, Rory Mcdonald all in absolute prime before reaching that conclusion.

Let’s wait and see how he does against men that beat B.J. Penn to a bloody pulp. Interesting take.

 

[fzoid4454]

He got some nice scalps on his resume.

Max (2x)

Conor (2x won the trilogy)

Gaethje....



.

He might be up there on the mma LW mount rushmore.

0-2 in title fights.

Max - not a LW.

Conor and Gaethje - never for the belt.

He needs win the belt, and successfully defend it against a great, top-notch fighter in a five-round contest for the title before he starts picking a seat in the Top LW dining section.

And I hope he does. He's one of my favorite current relevant fighters.

 

[Poatan Power]

To each his own but Edgar, etc. would never have been the best LW the planet if he was Khabib’s age. It’s just dumb luck.

???

This is literally silly conjecture, but more than that, it's nonsensical. You can't use the multiverse argument in any sensible way.

And FWIW, Edgar dethroned a 3x defending champion in BJ to become a 3x defending champion. He dethroned the GOAT and matched his accolades, who, had also beat the welterweight GOAT previously. Khabib beat Al laquinta, RDA, Justin, Dustin and Conor. I won't deny his dominance, but to denigrate previous great champions against Khabib's resume is hilarious.

FFS the revisionist history for Khabib who has 16/29 fights against absolute regional cans. There's a reason Khabib's opponents averaged a 58% winning percentage and he still bailed in his prime. Mileage matters, and the thing that separates Khabib from everyone else is his level of dominance and the fact that he wasn't durable. Missed weight, multiple fight pullouts, over half of his career vs cans, etc. -- Khabib wouldn't be able to handle the level of competition that the other LW greats fought. Not without losing or pulling out of multiple fights, anyway. Look, I'm looking into the multiverse, too.

 

[Natural Order]

Top 4? Naw. Maybe cracks Top 10.

 

[sandokan83]

Here we go.....

 

[GGpX]

I'm not sure he'd be top-4.

To me, the top 3 is pretty easy to come down to. BJ Penn and Khabib are the two best ever. I think Charles Oliviera is the third best LW ever.

After that, though, it becomes a question of, who gets the nod between Dustin Poirier, Raphael dos Anjos, Benson Henderson, Eddie Alvarez, Frankie Edgar, Yves Edwards, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Tony Ferguson, Anthony Pettis, Gilbert Melendez, Josh Thompson, Joachim Hansen, Takenori Gomi, Islam Mahkachev...

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but making a legitimate list of the ten best LWs ever would be a difficult task.

Gun to my head, I might put Eddie Alvarez fourth. I'd need to put a lot of thought into it, though.

 

[Poirierfan]

Translation: Dustin Poirier is the Chael Sonnen of the LW division, in a best case scenario.

Stop it, how dare you!!! Lol

 

[Poirierfan]

Mods, do your jobs, I want this place cleaned up before 7am or heads with roll. Your undercover boss has spoken.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Well it’s all kind of dumb luck really. All fighters are subordinated to the time in which they fought. You can only compete against the field during your time.

Right. If we’re looking for who’s the next best fighter after Khabib that could basically be the best fighter of another era or the second best fighter of Khabib’s era.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I'm not sure what that means. I think Edgar was too small to be dominant, GSP-style champion with 10 title defenses or something at LW...even if he didn't get robbed in the Bendo rematch. But he still had a great career. And for years he beat all the best guys at FW except Aldo...up until his mid-30s, which is very unusual.

I don't see an era where Poirier would be dominant for years, either. Remember, he got finished by MJ and had a pretty competitive fight with Dan Hooker for 5 rounds. And his wrestling is pretty weak. See the Khabib fight as well as an old MIchael Chandler easy winning a round against him using wrestling.

I’m not saying DP would be dominant for years, I’m just saying that I think he’s good enough to have had Edgar’s title reign if he’d been around at the same time.

It’s obviously just speculation.

 

[mkt]

I’m not saying DP would be dominant for years, I’m just saying that I think he’s good enough to have had Edgar’s title reign if he’d been around at the same time.

It’s obviously just speculation.

It's possible. But the sport evolves so it's always a bit unfair to say Fighter X would've done really well 10 or 15 years ago...unless we're talking about HW and maybe LHW...where the evolution and talent pool hasn't improved nearly as much as lighter weight classes.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

???

This is literally silly conjecture, but more than that, it's nonsensical. You can't use the multiverse argument in any sensible way.

And FWIW, Edgar dethroned a 3x defending champion in BJ to become a 3x defending champion. He dethroned the GOAT and matched his accolades, who, had also beat the welterweight GOAT previously. Khabib beat Al laquinta, RDA, Justin, Dustin and Conor. I won't deny his dominance, but to denigrate previous great champions against Khabib's resume is hilarious.

FFS the revisionist history for Khabib who has 16/29 fights against absolute regional cans. There's a reason Khabib's opponents averaged a 58% winning percentage and he still bailed in his prime. Mileage matters, and the thing that separates Khabib from everyone else is his level of dominance and the fact that he wasn't durable. Missed weight, multiple fight pullouts, over half of his career vs cans, etc. -- Khabib wouldn't be able to handle the level of competition that the other LW greats fought. Not without losing or pulling out of multiple fights, anyway. Look, I'm looking into the multiverse, too.

Of course it’s conjecture, that’s all you have when you compare eras. You speculate. I didn’t say Edgar wasn’t good. I said his career at LW took place under different circumstances to DP’s so you can’t just say “Edgar had a belt so he’s better.” Jens Pulver had the belt. That’s all I’m saying.