***2024 NBA Thread - Let The Games Begin***

I saw JxmyHighroller dropped a Luka episode, which I've never seen him do. As usual, a lot of data, great clips and commentary. I'll put it in spoilers so nobody has to see it if they don't want to.



Love Luka, and an entertaining video, but we have to be honest here, he is not a top 2 candidate this year nor should he be. It's SGA and Jokic and with good reason - them two have just been THAT good. If I was casting votes they'd have my 1 and 2 locked. I"d have to give serious debate between 3 and 4 but I'm not entirely sure why outside of personally enjoying the beauty of his game more and perhaps since Giannis ain't gonna win it anyways, I'd rather give a vote to someone who hasn't when it's real close.

The video notes adding points-rebs-assists as the key metric, but reality is WS, WS/48, and PER are the metrics that nab MVPs in modern history. Yes, there are exceptions every ten or so years like Westbrook and the averaging triple double narratives, or Embiid winning last year because voters in prior years were racist and whatever. But those are actually kinda rare and to be honest, can be used to justify wayyyy too much in the sense that because somebody undeserving won it 10 years ago that any one of multiple people are deserving any given year is a floodgate that shouldn't be opened. Anyhow kind of like how in baseball batting average has lost importance, so has outright stat lines in the face of more analytics.

Win Share/48 and Win Share:
Jokic 1st: .296 14.5
SGA 2nd: .288 14.0
Giannis 3rd: .248 11.8
Doncic 5th: .217 10.3 (would note, it's a pretty big gap here top 2 versus rest)

PER:
Jokic 1st: 31.0
SGA 2nd: 30.0
Giannis 3rd: 29.9
Doncic 4th: 28.3

Think Dallas with Luka on the bench is painful enough? On/Off stats:
Jokic +23.4 points, estimated 51 wins
Giannis +12.2 points estimated 28 wins
SGA +11.0 points, estimated 23 wins
Doncic +7.9 points, estimated 19 wins
Which I think is what got lost in the video, it wasn't that Jokic won when Denver was a 6 seed that all sixth seed teams are created equal. It's that he took something resembling a historically awful team that otherwise would be lucky to win like 13 games, to a team with 47 wins. There's different levels of carrying teams and he carried a shit team by a magnitude greater.

Since I was talking about usage rates earlier:
Doncic 1st 36.0%
SGA and Giannis 2nd (Tie) 32.8%
Jokic 19th at 29.1%

Agree totally though the media does Luka dirty like when he got his 73 in a game and ESPN cried about it, just days after pumping Embiid's tires for getting 70. No disgrace to Luka, his play and numbers are incredible - and his moments of extreme brilliance are absolutely very top tier, but I think right now vegas has the odds right with Jokic, SGA, Doncic, and Giannis top 4, but there's no credible road in my view to have Doncic the MVP this year.
 
Love Luka, and an entertaining video, but we have to be honest here, he is not a top 2 candidate this year nor should he be. It's SGA and Jokic and with good reason - them two have just been THAT good. If I was casting votes they'd have my 1 and 2 locked. I"d have to give serious debate between 3 and 4 but I'm not entirely sure why outside of personally enjoying the beauty of his game more and perhaps since Giannis ain't gonna win it anyways, I'd rather give a vote to someone who hasn't when it's real close.

The video notes adding points-rebs-assists as the key metric, but reality is WS, WS/48, and PER are the metrics that nab MVPs in modern history. Yes, there are exceptions every ten or so years like Westbrook and the averaging triple double narratives, or Embiid winning last year because voters in prior years were racist and whatever. But those are actually kinda rare and to be honest, can be used to justify wayyyy too much in the sense that because somebody undeserving won it 10 years ago that any one of multiple people are deserving any given year is a floodgate that shouldn't be opened. Anyhow kind of like how in baseball batting average has lost importance, so has outright stat lines in the face of more analytics.

Win Share/48 and Win Share:
Jokic 1st: .296 14.5
SGA 2nd: .288 14.0
Giannis 3rd: .248 11.8
Doncic 5th: .217 10.3 (would note, it's a pretty big gap here top 2 versus rest)

PER:
Jokic 1st: 31.0
SGA 2nd: 30.0
Giannis 3rd: 29.9
Doncic 4th: 28.3

Think Dallas with Luka on the bench is painful enough? On/Off stats:
Jokic +23.4 points, estimated 51 wins
Giannis +12.2 points estimated 28 wins
SGA +11.0 points, estimated 23 wins
Doncic +7.9 points, estimated 19 wins
Which I think is what got lost in the video, it wasn't that Jokic won when Denver was a 6 seed that all sixth seed teams are created equal. It's that he took something resembling a historically awful team that otherwise would be lucky to win like 13 games, to a team with 47 wins. There's different levels of carrying teams and he carried a shit team by a magnitude greater.

Since I was talking about usage rates earlier:
Doncic 1st 36.0%
SGA and Giannis 2nd (Tie) 32.8%
Jokic 19th at 29.1%

Agree totally though the media does Luka dirty like when he got his 73 in a game and ESPN cried about it, just days after pumping Embiid's tires for getting 70. No disgrace to Luka, his play and numbers are incredible - and his moments of extreme brilliance are absolutely very top tier, but I think right now vegas has the odds right with Jokic, SGA, Doncic, and Giannis top 4, but there's no credible road in my view to have Doncic the MVP this year.

Listen man, rather than try to refute or counter your argument here, I just want to ask you something, do you understand that without Luka the Mavs are a gdamned lotto team? The Nuggets win games without Jokic and sometimes without Jokic or Murray. Without Luka the Mavs are a ZERO. Kyrie is great but he isn't lifting this squad out of the muck by himself.
 
When Stephanie Urry misses a 3 to tie it with 1:27 to go

giphy.gif
 
Listen man, rather than try to refute or counter your argument here, I just want to ask you something, do you understand that without Luka the Mavs are a gdamned lotto team? The Nuggets win games without Jokic and sometimes without Jokic or Murray. Without Luka the Mavs are a ZERO. Kyrie is great but he isn't lifting this squad out of the muck by himself.

Yeah, no doubt they aren't very good without Doncic. I don't particularly like splitting hairs because it's like talking about the very best of the 500 or players in the league and people should be happy just to see them play and have them in the league. I think last year was the most toxic MVP discussion in ages, largely because Philly fans are for the most part cans, and ESPN especially backed them because they are a franchise more in the spotlight.

All that being said, I will still crap on Jayson Tatum. He's even odds now with Giannis now when there's a huge gap between them in terms of overall ability and value to their team. Just ridiculous.
 
What happened?

Hardcan didn’t talk to media after their embarrassing loss to Sixers at home.

Can’t blame him. Lue wanted Pfizer P to take over in the 4th instead of Hardcan playing point. No one was surprised when Pfizer handed the game to Sixers instead with like 5 bad plays in a row.

George got no heart, he’ll give up when he gets locked up on D (also choking FT in playoffs). OKC definitely won that trade getting SGA with a shitload of draft picks.

Flerps gonna Flerps.
 
Maybe you should watch WNBA.

I'm just used to seeing Giannis wham on someone 5x a night so when the Indian guy on Sportscenter tries his best to speak ebonics talking about KAT or some other homoes one decent dunk of the season it's pretty uninspiring.
 
I'm just used to seeing Giannis wham on someone 5x a night so when the Indian guy on Sportscenter tries his best to speak ebonics talking about KAT or some other homoes one decent dunk of the season it's pretty uninspiring.

Americans don't have good young players, so american media is trying to push that Anthony Edwards is the new face of the league (he might have potential) and people like Stephen A trying to make a case for Tatum as the MVP


The following players are not Americans and they're probably amongst the top 10 in the league:
Jokic (best)
Giannis (2nd best)
Luka (best offensive)
Embiid (amongst the best, his team fell to shit after he went down with injury)
Wembanyama (next best)
SGA (smooth as butter, pretty great all around)
 
Americans don't have good young players, so american media is trying to push that Anthony Edwards is the new face of the league (he might have potential) and people like Stephen A trying to make a case for Tatum as the MVP


The following players are not Americans and they're probably amongst the top 10 in the league:
Jokic (best)
Giannis (2nd best)
Luka (best offensive)
Embiid (amongst the best, his team fell to shit after he went down with injury)
Wembanyama (next best)
SGA (smooth as butter, pretty great all around)

It's a business first and foremost, and whoever has potential to sell the most merchandise is who the sports media is gonna pump. Embiid is hilarious because he's gonna play for USA and ditch his Cameroon heritage because it's an easy gold medal. He's kinda sleazy that way it seems but it's a good deciion for business and legacy building to casuals. It doesn't seem like anyone else on that list would do such a can move.
 
Back
Top