Elections Are Musk and others moving Right? Or is the left running left?

[rob mafia]

The only thing Democrats have moved left on in that above list are marijuana and maybe abortion (support for a stronger safety net is something you didn't mention). The bottom list is mostly stuff that has no connection with actual governance--stuff that Republicans scaremonger about to get people to vote for politicians who support policies that they oppose. The exceptions there (i.e., bottom-list items where who is in power actually makes a difference) are tax progressivity and abortion, and police funding except it's the opposite of what activists talk about (i.e., police funding is higher because Democrats are in power and distributed more federal funds to state and local gov'ts than Republicans would have).

yeah, there were definitely no pronoun laws. or presidential candidates saying "surge to the border." or bathroom law nonsense. and definitely no police being defunded.

nope. didn't happen.

same with chaz. it was a fever dream.

 

[rob mafia]

So you don't have a source for Bernie wanting to change the entire economic system?

wat.

bernie IS the source. wtf are you talking about? it seems like you should be taking up this nonsense argument with bernie.

 

[ShadowRun]

The only thing Democrats have moved left on in that above list are marijuana and maybe abortion (support for a stronger safety net is something you didn't mention). The bottom list is mostly stuff that has no connection with actual governance--stuff that Republicans scaremonger about to get people to vote for politicians who support policies that they oppose. The exceptions there (i.e., bottom-list items where who is in power actually makes a difference) are tax progressivity and abortion, and police funding except it's the opposite of what activists talk about (i.e., police funding is higher because Democrats are in power and distributed more federal funds to state and local gov'ts than Republicans would have).

You are going off policy stuff right not culture war issues ?

 

[Rational Poster]

wat.

bernie IS the source. wtf are you talking about? it seems like you should be taking up this nonsense argument with bernie.

It seems like if he was intent on changing the entire economic system it would be easy for you to find him saying it one time at least.

 

[rob mafia]

It seems like if he was intent on changing the entire economic system it would be easy for you to find him saying it one time at least.

ffs, man. when laziness meets willful ignorance meets incompetence.

https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/democratic-socialists-america/




https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

What is Democratic Socialism?
Capitalism is a system designed by the owning class to exploit the rest of us for their own profit. We must replace it with democratic socialism, a system where ordinary people have a real voice in our workplaces, neighborhoods, and society.



hurr durr, bernie doesn't blahblahblah! show me where be blahblah! oh, it's RIGHT ON HIS FUCKING WEBSITE

 

[chardog]

Kennedy put a man on the Moon, Obama put a man in woman's Bathroom

the left has changed

 

[Islam Imamate]

Attached is a twitter graph from Elon Musk showing his political views. In the graph, it shows his political ideologies staying the same, while the left has run in a new direction. Is this the case?

It has been like this for me. When I got out of college, I was an Independent and thought Bill Clinton, JFK, and even Carter to a lesser extent were good Presidents, while not being a fan of Bushes. Now I am a Libertarian that votes Republican. It seems like the Democratic party used to be a party for the working man, now they are just a party for woke special interests and are actually against the working man. They are more happy to see affirmative action and woke interests take precedence over the concerns of the average American. It seems as if that is their platform.

Bill Clinton would get kicked out of the Democratic party today. Has any else changed parties without really changing their views? Discuss.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/elon-musk-says-woke-progressive-extremists-make-him-look-right-wing/&psig=AOvVaw3A-R3ivsUZMs3Dbkg9_i3S&ust=1653013623443000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAwQjRxqFwoTCMjbueHB6vcCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAG

There's been polarization so "both sides" have in some way moved away from the center. Its interesting because the two parties have done so in virtually opposite ways though.

With the GOP you have an establishment wing that is deeply unpopular that faced a challenge from populists, the biggest of which being Trump but I'd also throw in people like MTG in there. These populists have no real policy platform though so while they trounce the establishment GOP candidates they run up against they don't actually offer a policy alternative and they more or less allow establishment Republicans to govern they way they normally do.

On the Democrat side we see the reverse, in response to the populist challenge establishment politicians were capable of resisting them electorally but felt as though they had to change their policy platforms in the direction of the populists to manage to do so. So in the end the establishment politicians remain in power but the platform becomes more populist while on the right side establishment politicians lose power but the platform stays the same.

You see that embodied in the 2020 election. Joe Biden was the career politician but who had the most progressive platform in the party's history while Donald Trump was the populist insurgent turned GOP establishment crusader.

 

[Rational Poster]

ffs, man. when laziness meets willful ignorance meets incompetence.

https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/democratic-socialists-america/




https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

What is Democratic Socialism?
Capitalism is a system designed by the owning class to exploit the rest of us for their own profit. We must replace it with democratic socialism, a system where ordinary people have a real voice in our workplaces, neighborhoods, and society.



hurr durr, bernie doesn't blahblahblah! show me where be blahblah! oh, it's RIGHT ON HIS FUCKING WEBSITE

Was that so hard? I mean you could have just started there

 

[rob mafia]

Was that so hard? I mean you could have just started there

...i figured pointing out that he was a "democratic socialist" was enough.

and then figured the definition of his own stance was enough.

i didn't think you were seriously this ignorant about the person/subject you're arguing. good to know. the iota of credit i gave you was too much.

 

[Rational Poster]

...i figured pointing out that he was a "democratic socialist" was enough.

and then figured the definition of his own stance was enough.

i didn't think you were seriously this ignorant about the person/subject you're arguing. good to know. the iota of credit i gave you was too much.

I mean I don't think your own definition and Bernie's even line up, especially when you actually look through the issues Bernie has posted.

And then really, we're back to my original point. Democratic socialism isn't far left, it's just more left than market liberalism. There's still more to go past it before you get to the far left.

 

[ShadowRun]

2020s.

Woodrow was a disaster

 

[heloder]

The left moves left and the right...moves left as well. That's the way it's always been, and it's the way it will always be. There's a reason for this.

 

[Halifax]

And it's obviously wrong. Again, if the guy just wants to make the case that Republican policies are good, he should do that instead of pushing really obvious lies.

So you think this would fly if Clinton was running for election today?



That could easily be considered a Trump speech by today's standards. And leftists would rage.

You think he could sign the defense of marriage act into law today? Denying same sex marriage being recognized?

You think he would sign the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act into law, limiting welfare and freeloaders?

A lot of shit Clinton did and said would be considered heresy to the left today.

 

[Rod1]

So you think this would fly if Clinton was running for election today?



That could easily be considered a Trump speech by today's standards. And leftists would rage.

You think he could sign the defense of marriage act into law today? Denying same sex marriage being recognized?

You think he would sign the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act into law, limiting welfare and freeloaders?

A lot of shit Clinton did and said would be considered heresy to the left today.

When Clinton was president border security was lax as fuck.

Also whether something is heresy or not by some leftists doesn't means that is a national policy.

The crazies are a minority among Democrats but are a majority among Republican.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

The far right are sprinting right as fast as they can. The far left are sprinting left as fast as they can. And they are both doing it so fast that soon there will actually be a 'radical middle' to go with the radical right and the radical left. Maybe then we can have a 3 party system and finally get some shit done.

We really need a 3 party system.

 

[ShadowRun]

When Clinton was president border security was lax as fuck.

Also whether something is heresy or not by some leftists doesn't means that is a national policy.

The crazies are a minority among Democrats but are a majority among Republican.

I disagree but the dems bend the knee to the crazies and virtue signal for them

 

[Rod1]

I disagree but the dems bend the knee to the crazies and virtue signal for them

Clinton-Trump
Biden-Trump

Again, its not the Dems who are putting forward crazy candidates.

 

[ShadowRun]

Clinton-Trump
Biden-Trump

Again, its not the Dems who are putting forward crazy candidates.

Biden is a puppet Trump at least had a backbone. Biden does whatever the party wants that’s what your post was about. How many dems have their pronouns in their Twitter profile and why do they ? They appealing to the crazies that demand that.

 

[Jack V Savage]

So you think this would fly if Clinton was running for election today?

That could easily be considered a Trump speech by today's standards. And leftists would rage.

You think he could sign the defense of marriage act into law today? Denying same sex marriage being recognized?

You think he would sign the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act into law, limiting welfare and freeloaders?

A lot of shit Clinton did and said would be considered heresy to the left today.

The speech would be weird today because the unauthorized immigrant population has been falling for like 15 years now (and we have a labor shortage rather than a jobs shortage), but it was soaring at the time so it was more of an issue. But, no, no one would rage at it. I think you're getting your idea of what Democrats think from Breitbart (or the WR) rather than from, like, talking to them or reading polls. And, no the DOMA wouldn't pass today, but note that he criticized it at the time, signing it because it had a veto-proof majority. At this time, you'd have few people who would admit to supporting it. Public opinion on that one issue has shifted dramatically, and politics has caught up. There are a couple of things that have changed, but if you look at Clinton's platform and positions as a whole, they're mostly in line with what today's Democrats support, and if you look at what Republicans today support, it would have horrified the left of the '90s (and most of the right of the '90s, for that matter).

 

[rob mafia]

The speech would be weird today because the unauthorized immigrant population has been falling for like 15 years now

But, no, no one would rage at it.