International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

PhitePhan said:
Serious question. What did the Roman authorities say about Christian martyrs at the time? I’d imagine something along the lines of: “Those guys are CRAZY, you’d have to be an idiot to follow them.”
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Iirc most remaining sources are basically just astonishment at the conviction. Majority of the sources are from after the fact as well, and surely will have a certain slant to them -- over 2,000 years a lot of shit gets "lost."

Also the world was hella different back then. Extreme acts were more commonplace even in western culture so in the context of that society yes, it was extreme because of how many were willing to go to that level of dying for the belief, but it wasn't necessarily a novel act.
 
djacobox372 said:
Very telling that none of the mainstream media is reporting on this.
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Did you even look?




www.bbc.co.uk

Aaron Bushnell: US airman dies after setting himself on fire outside Israeli embassy in Washington

Secret Service agents extinguished the flames during the incident on Sunday afternoon.
www.bbc.co.uk

www.aljazeera.com

Suicide vs genocide: Rest in power, Aaron Bushnell

Bushnell’s extreme act of protest has put Western corporate media to shame.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

www.foxnews.com

Pentagon says actions of US airman who set himself on fire outside Israeli Embassy in DC was 'tragic event'

The Pentagon said an airman who died Sunday after setting himself on fire near the Israeli embassy in Washington was part of a "tragic event."
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
TheMaster said:
The attempt by some to paint him as 'mentally ill' is a lame and easily transparent attempt to discredit and dismiss his actions, and therefore not be forced to confront ones own overt support or even just silence and tacit endorsements of heineous evil being currently committed with this government and military's help.

"Good gosh, how could someone feel so upset about the mass killing of women and children in their name to kill themselves like that? He must be mentally ill"

It shows how low the bar has fallen, and to expect much different reaction from many, whose lives have been trivialized with media and distraction to this extent and whose most virtuous act is probably having to wait in the queue at Burger King, is much to ask.
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Yes but if that's "how log the bar has fallen" doesn't that raise the question of, "Is this really the best way to get your point across then, when you know that a large number of people will ridicule your state of mind to the point that it may overshadow your message?"


Edit: I will preemptively agree to disagree if your answer is yes. You're entitled to that opinion, I just don't want to outright argue.
 
i saw the video and wish i hadn't. poor guy. this is a sick world.

edit: and for anyone who hasn't seen it, don't. you don't know what it really feels like to see someone burn alive right in front of you until you actually do, and it's a sickening feeling.
 
SmilinDesperado said:
The comparisons to the Buddhist monks is a bit off, imo. What the soldier and they have in common is the act of self- immolation and doing it in protest for a cause they believe in.
I think we all understand the reason why this guy did this. That's not the mystery. It's why choose THIS act as the protest in the position that he is in?

Where this differs from the monks for me is that, 1, they're Buddhist monks. They believe in reincarnation, so they would just be taking themselves to their next life. And 2, they're directly impacted by what is happening. They're in the thick of it, it's their people, they are right there. They probably have different ideas of life and death, and maybe they don't even think that their death matters in the grand scheme of things. As crazy as it sounds to light yourself on fire, knowing what a person in that position might believe, I can understand it. I don't think you would have to be crazy to do it in this situation.

I don't know the soldier's religion , but , unless he believed in reincarnation or an afterlife....how do you throw away the one life you had?
The feeling of wanting to help people in need is understandable, but he just isn't in the same situation where this makes sense. Add to that, if he's knowledgeable of what is going on in the world over there, he has to have known that a war isn't going to get stopped because he set himself on fire, so, what was the goal?
I think this move would make a lot more sense for a Palestinian that's desperate and IN this situation..but an American in America? How are you plugged in this much to world news and not have an understanding of how media and these kinds of things work in this age?
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to add to your "bit off", Buddhism is against violence, so the monk didnt have that many options. the soldier was a SOLDIER, active duty. guess he believed his own understanding of Trudeau's phrase... if I kill myself, I win. what a dumbass!
 
Bagatur said:
to add to your "bit off", Buddhism is against violence, so the monk didnt have that many options. the soldier was a SOLDIER, active duty. guess he believed his own understanding of Trudeau's phrase... if I kill myself, I win. what a dumbass!
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He was an airman who worked in IT.
 
Bagatur said:
not a member of US military?
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He was military I think, just his job was at a keyboard.

He was described as a cyber-defence operations specialist with the 531st Intelligence Support Squadron at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland in Texas, and had been in the air force since May 2020.

www.telegraph.co.uk

US airman who killed himself outside Israeli Embassy was anarchist from religious sect

Aaron Bushnell grew up in a religious compound in Massachusetts where his parents are long-time members of the Community for Jesus church
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

It also said he was a member of a cultish church which strongly supported Israel's operations, so that was almost certainly a big factor in his decision. I guess he might have already been alienated from his community.
 
KnightTemplar said:
I'm sorry, but the idea one man's suicide can have any effect on the Israel - Hamas War is ridiculous. No IDF soldier is going to watch that video and think, "Are we the baddies?". Palestinians are too busy starving and dodging bombs to give a shit about a single American suicide thousands of miles away.

As for his motives, he made it clear he was protesting against Israel's, "genocide" of the Palestinians, and America's support of it.

His death was simply an extremely retarded version of the thousands of idiots who march and wave Palestinian flags while singing, "From the river to the sea..." It's a waste of time. Because only a tiny number of people have the power to change the situation in Gaza. And none of them give a shit about marches or suicides.
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The idea of limiting the good this man did to a very narrowly defined specific set of outcomes is ridiculous and unrealistic too.

It's also really sad that our culture can lose so much love that it can't understand a self-sacrifice like what this man "may" have done.

He has already done more good than you ever will on this topic for instance. Just arguing about it on sherdog...

People that try to do good in the world have to think of it in very small terms. If what I have done even affects one person and makes them live better my effort has been worth it. But there is no doubt even just based on this thread that he's already affected deeply at least three people and made them think and contemplate and come to a deeper place.

You can personally think that isn't worth his life. And you can think he is just plain wrong about Israel... but that really has no bearing on the good that he did and his motivations and his perceptions.
 
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PhitePhan said:
Serious question. What did the Roman authorities say about Christian martyrs at the time? I’d imagine something along the lines of: “Those guys are CRAZY, you’d have to be an idiot to follow them.”
Click to expand...
I've been so reticent to bring up this point but it's such an obviously good one.... Martyrdom wether motivated by religion or not can be a supreme act of love for one's culture, society, country, etc.
 
SmilinDesperado said:
The comparisons to the Buddhist monks is a bit off, imo. What the soldier and they have in common is the act of self- immolation and doing it in protest for a cause they believe in.
I think we all understand the reason why this guy did this. That's not the mystery. It's why choose THIS act as the protest in the position that he is in?

Where this differs from the monks for me is that, 1, they're Buddhist monks. They believe in reincarnation, so they would just be taking themselves to their next life. And 2, they're directly impacted by what is happening. They're in the thick of it, it's their people, they are right there. They probably have different ideas of life and death, and maybe they don't even think that their death matters in the grand scheme of things. As crazy as it sounds to light yourself on fire, knowing what a person in that position might believe, I can understand it. I don't think you would have to be crazy to do it in this situation.

I don't know the soldier's religion , but , unless he believed in reincarnation or an afterlife....how do you throw away the one life you had?
The feeling of wanting to help people in need is understandable, but he just isn't in the same situation where this makes sense. Add to that, if he's knowledgeable of what is going on in the world over there, he has to have known that a war isn't going to get stopped because he set himself on fire, so, what was the goal?
I think this move would make a lot more sense for a Palestinian that's desperate and IN this situation..but an American in America? How are you plugged in this much to world news and not have an understanding of how media and these kinds of things work in this age
Click to expand...

Believing in reincarnation cannot be the only possible justification for martyrdom can it? Can you really think of no other spiritual motivation that is justifiable in that context? What about a secular motivation?

But also saying that the monks are more justified because it directly affects their people is actually working against your argument in my opinion. It would be a greater act of love for a person to give their life for a people that was not their own rather than their own.

And if he didn't believe in the afterlife at all, it might even be considered a greater act of love because there was no reward whatsoever, only the self sacrifice for the greater good. That might even be more selfless.
 
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Rob Battisti said:
That Hamas doesn’t care about killing civilians?
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That’s a pretty ironic statement.

Nonetheless, I do think killing civilians is abhorrent, I’ve just never heard of Hamas killing civilians or foreigners in Gaza… maybe I missed the news?

<Fedor23>
 
PhitePhan said:
That’s a pretty ironic statement.

Nonetheless, I do think killing civilians is abhorrent, I’ve just never heard of Hamas killing civilians or foreigners in Gaza… maybe I missed the news?

<Fedor23>
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Well it’s not that ironic since clearly they don’t. The IDF doesn’t seem to care much either. I wouldn’t lie and say that.
 
Osculater said:
But but but he was an ally though? <Lmaoo><45>
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Another example that leftists don't even respect 'white allies' and actually have contempt for them as gullible fools.

Just as much contempt we have for them aa gullible fools.



 
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