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All the years, and still little boys
Anyone following the huge chess cheating controversy?
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This thread has been properly DMF'd
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Hey, I ain't no fucking joke. I played the Octopus 5 times. Twice as a kid in a tournament where he played like twenty other people at once, and I hung in, once as man, and twice alone as pals. I thought I evolved, we're friends, but he said, yeah I remember you. Highlight of my chess life, and last game I played. To actually be good, maybe in anything, there's only three ways. You have to have it. You have to want it. You have it and want it. I thought I had it, I didn't have it, and I didn't want it. And when I knew that I quit playing all games, I didn't have the heart to win anything, I didn't give a shit, five plays in to what I thought was brilliant tactics, it's like a moral wheel flew off, and I just didn't give a shit. ...That's a scarlet letter, a character flaw.
The whole point of life, as we celebrate sports, or science or art or anything at all, the ultimate is greatness, and personally, I believe the greatestest endeavors of human capacity mentally is music, maybe opera, and physically, female gymnastics, but the beauty of any art is the casualness. I challenge you to argue. Rimbaud, Brando, Nureyev, Tarkovsky, Herzog, Tennessee Wms, some things are just outside the context, you know it, everyone knows it, the world knows it all at the same fucking time. That's not magic, that's mythic, whether you meant to or not, you tapped into the zeitgeist. You, apart from whatever it is you're doing, appeal to the universe, maybe not all of it, but you are beautiful and resonant in a way that touches people. A small cat can do that to anyone, and there's that picture of a dog. It's absolutely nothing, but also everything. You can accidentally be an image. But if you transcend that and stay real, it's gotta be tough. I am in your corner.
I don't mean this to be maudlin or way out of line, and simply no one has to click on my shit. But when I think of great young giants and the WORLD, this hits me hard time and again. again, you don't have to click past here
The whole point of life, as we celebrate sports, or science or art or anything at all, the ultimate is greatness, and personally, I believe the greatestest endeavors of human capacity mentally is music, maybe opera, and physically, female gymnastics, but the beauty of any art is the casualness. I challenge you to argue. Rimbaud, Brando, Nureyev, Tarkovsky, Herzog, Tennessee Wms, some things are just outside the context, you know it, everyone knows it, the world knows it all at the same fucking time. That's not magic, that's mythic, whether you meant to or not, you tapped into the zeitgeist. You, apart from whatever it is you're doing, appeal to the universe, maybe not all of it, but you are beautiful and resonant in a way that touches people. A small cat can do that to anyone, and there's that picture of a dog. It's absolutely nothing, but also everything. You can accidentally be an image. But if you transcend that and stay real, it's gotta be tough. I am in your corner.
I don't mean this to be maudlin or way out of line, and simply no one has to click on my shit. But when I think of great young giants and the WORLD, this hits me hard time and again. again, you don't have to click past here
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And that is what most people dont get who criticize Magnus. Its not about the one loss. Hans has an extensive history of cheating in several games. . Every gm avoiding him should have the right to do so
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This wasn't my theme song, mine has been laid out long ago here. ...but one day on my wooden porch steps,with a clear night sky, a part happening, coming and going people passing and going arm-wrestling, fucking, fighting, I'm on the porch, we gotta bonfire it's 2 in the morning. A friend of mine who is a girl, asks if she can bring her guy in. Well,my doorman is a highschool pal, but also the biggest Indian in Montana,...everybody says that, there's records. I'm friend with the three brothers. And I can only give context as a Rick Grimes to the dumbest thing you can imagine. We've partied, me him and his brothers forever. We matured to our proper shit, he became a fucking giant, and not a docile gentle giante, and huge state record mean violent, wrong long you're on a roof or not seen again.
So, when death don't mean shit, not like the kids say (and here I feel maybe things fall to thoughts of another day),
the rest of the story follows. I'm here, but if no one is here it can die, it's not important, what's the relevence
So, when death don't mean shit, not like the kids say (and here I feel maybe things fall to thoughts of another day),
the rest of the story follows. I'm here, but if no one is here it can die, it's not important, what's the relevence
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Dude this guy is a butthole expert, just trust him.
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Really appreciate you guys sharing some of this development going on in the chess world.
It's fascinating that computers are revealing just how complicated chess can become. It makes one wonder how high a ranking can be achieved as computers advance and what the ceiling might be.
I imagine there's some high leve speculation about where this is all leading?
If I recall correctly Fischer wanted to do something to the game because he felt things were becoming a bit redundant. Little did anyone know at the time where things would be today.
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I am not aware of any confirmed extensive history of cheating aside from when Hans was young (12 and 16 years old). If that's what you are talking about then it is inconsequential to the current issue IMO. This is history that Hans has admitted to and has claimed he no longer cheats. Magnus hasn't revealed any real evidence and chess.com is still being quiet even though they have claimed they have new evidence.
As far as I am concern the data points that has been shown so far is inconclusive. Fabiano Caruana has also dove into some of those high performing games in detail and didn't find anything that is outrageously out of line. The problem Caruana claims is that Hans often just plays weird and odd moves in his games. The game against Alireza in the Sinquefield Cup for example (the day Magnus withdrew I think). The move QG3 was considered a bad move he couldn't explain during it during the initial interview but he was probably on tilt because of Magnus. But the reason he said later was that he just made an aggressive move to scare Alireza. Alireza even confirmed it (HJans told him after the the game) that he got scared because Hans made the move almost immediately and he didn't understand the move at all and respond and take a free piece. They drew the game but everybody agrees that Hans plays a lot of unconventional moves.
The point I am trying to make is are we only looking at Han's great games? What about his bad games when he makes odd moves then just get destroyed/loses?
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He's lying about that. He has only admitted to cheating in two games, but Rensch went on record asserting that his cheating on Chess.com was far more extensive than that. I believe Rensch at face value when it comes to this. He has invested more than anyone in the chess world into ferreting out cheaters, and his website is damn good at it. Rensch may be a fanboy for the super GMs, but I'll take his word over a cheater's.
Again, it's not that I'm inclined to disbelieve Magnus. Magnus righly calculated that while his behavior would inherit criticism, it would also put Hans under a microscope so powerful going forward, that if he is cheating, and getting away with it, there will be no possibility he sustains that, and Magnus apparently believes this was worth the immediate cost of clapback due to the fact he doesn't have any damningly concrete evidence.
I have simply pointed out that even probabalistic math doesn't reveal patterns that exceed the realm of credulity. So if Hans has been cheating, he has been "smart cheating" (a term that is being bandied a lot on Chess forums, lately). Similarly, though, if you look at some of the games where his accuracy has been extraordinarly good, there aren't any red flags. If anything, most of the flags have come from interviews where he's said some very odd things. But take this game as an example. This is one of my favorite chess YouTubers, he's been doing it forever, long before COVID, The Queen's Gambit, or even Twitch popularized the game to whole new audiences, and he takes you through a game that might raise an eyebrow until you actually follow the game's flow.
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You are right I specified cheating in more broader terms regarding matches that are simple impossible regarding accuracy to have happened without digital assistance. Its the cheating without official note. If you dont want to consider that cheating fine but I dont think we are overstepping to consider him someone with an extensive background in cheating. The circumstantial evidence is too strong. Everything fits together from his coach, documented matches ( I have to look up the data gain but it was at least 10 near engine perfect matches ), according to different sources even more than 20 with 100%. That IS cheating. Magnus has 3 btw) to him lying about how he was able to play like this (ok consider it remembering "wrong" but that is much less probable than him lying). Niemann is a cheater who perfected that together with his coach (Maxim Dlugy) as a way to break into the elite bracket. Thats my view on him and the experts that analysed his matches including Carlsen are enough evidence for me.
People focus way too much on the anal beads to discredit and make fun of Carlsens view on Niemann but that was always just one of many possible ways Niemann cheats.^
One perfect match especially a shorter one is nothing suspicious but as often as Niemann only happened once in entire history (correct me if you know more examples) with Sebastien Feller in 2010 with 98% . This one occasion was later proven to be cheating by Feller communicating with two other GMs that used a chess engine and then had developed a very complex scheme to message Feller the correct moves. BUt I get that its very difficult to prove engine accuracy as cheating and there seems to not be one accepted method.
What do you guys think of the Rios match in 2021 with 45 moves and considered near 100% engine correlation?
https://www.chess.com/events/2021-sharjah-masters/02/Niemann_Hans_Moke-Rios_Cristhian_Camilo
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Maybe maybe not. I don't agree with how it's being handled IMO.
If you suspect him of cheating then I think they should have continued playing him but set up multiple gaming traps to expose him. Yes smart cheating is hard to detect but they could have continued to gather more evidence.
And my previous posting of Caruana has him do a deep dive into several of Hans's games top rated games and his assessment was generally all those can be achieved without cheating.
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It's illogical to expect them to catch him with algorithms OTB after putting the microscope on him. Obviously if he had been cheating one would expect him to refrain knowing he had eyes on him. Magnus's antics limited their options, there.
Pertaining to his entitlement to play on Chess.com, I don't care. Don't like it? Tough. Rensch calls the shots. It's his company. That simple.
Yes, I just pointed out that his high accuracy games don't particularly raise any red flags that would elude traditional mathematical investigation of larger data sets. I'm still waiting on @robotsonic to produce these alleged 10 OTB classical games of 100% engine accuracy, and also this so-called mathematical analysis indicating cheating. I notice he ghosted the thread the moment these claims were challenged.
Scandal breeds innovation!!! The official Morse code to rectum github
https://github.com/RonSijm/ButtFish
https://github.com/RonSijm/ButtFish
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LOL, I never ghosted the thread, some of us have social lives and don't live on here, Mr 60k posts.
Also WTF are you talking about I never claimed he had 10 100% Engine correlation OTB games, you literally invented that strawman yourself. This was my actual quote, so not sure why you came up with that? The suspicious engine correlation games are based on Chessbase analysis of online stuff he did.
I've seen you do this kind of shit often on here so partly why I didn't want to bother getting into an argument with you, you're petty, hostile and intellectually dishonest, as a nearing 40 year old man I have better shit to do than get into it with you. You don't think there is statistically suspicious activity from Hans, fine. I do.
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I was in a Tennessee Williams play as an 11 year old fatty. I was one of the "no neck monsters" in cat on a hot tin roof. I got the part after a summer of auditions. They fed us tremendously. Small part but the producer people liked me. Had it, but didn't want it. Not that much it, a bit of it, enough for a career if I had understood a single fucking thing about the world at the time.
Ah well. At least meat fist is in my corner
Petty hostile and dishonest describes the internet in general doesn't it? Mad Mick has a Hemmingway style to him but isn't life just one fight after another anyway? Everything is always a grind and a struggle. Nothing is ever easy even when it could be, that's the human condition.
I don't have a dog in this fight but drunken meat fist gets me a bit poetical sometimes
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No, that wasn't your quote. Here it is:
And I included the first sentence because I wanted to emphasize that this was explicitly discussed within the context of Professor Regan's analysis whose model you criticized. You're aware those are the games he analyzed, right? OTB Classical? You're also aware Chessbase has never disclosed any methodology for that figure assigning engine accuracy, too, right? Not the engine, not the depth, etc. And, in fact, yes, as has already been discussed, many masters have already offered videos where they scruple some of his games with incredibly high accuracy according to Chessbase, and have issued their opinion the games aren't raising red flags. In the critical positions a typical grandmaster could be expected to make the same moves. The general flow of moves was obvious.
I put a very simple challenge to you to explicitly detail what about Regan's model is flawed, and how Rensch's model is superior, mathematically. What do you do? You throw this irrelevant tantrum as smoke to avoid confronting your ignorant bloviations.
Stop presenting yourself as someone with some sort of expertise or intimate familiarity with this situation.
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I have a question for all you chess aficionados.
What was the difference between DEEP BLUE and any other AI in a regular chess game or app like battle chess back on pc ?
What was the difference between DEEP BLUE and any other AI in a regular chess game or app like battle chess back on pc ?
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Smh, I’m getting tired of these kind of posts.
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A body language analysis seems to indicate that Hans Niemann is lying:
The TLDW:
Hans Niemann fakes an accent to sound more intelligent.
Hans Niemann contradicts his explanation for how he acquired his accent and became good at chess.
IMO, I think Hans is a bit of a poser/narcissist, his hair, his accent, his frown pose, he is almost trying to copy Magnus Carlsen and try to humiliate him on the chess world stage.
The TLDW:
Hans Niemann fakes an accent to sound more intelligent.
Hans Niemann contradicts his explanation for how he acquired his accent and became good at chess.
IMO, I think Hans is a bit of a poser/narcissist, his hair, his accent, his frown pose, he is almost trying to copy Magnus Carlsen and try to humiliate him on the chess world stage.
