Opinion Are there any statistics on how many people die by police?

[MaxMMA]

I pointed out how stop and frisk granted leniency to white people and illogically focused their policing on minorities even when whites where turning up more weapons and drugs when stopped. Then I pointed out that type of disproportionate use of policing/mass incarnation over the course of long time will have negative effects on a minority group.

Then you said something about all black leaders only blamed everything on racism.

I posted: I'm sure you're right, but would you find an equal amount of homicides, assaults, and armed robberies?

And you replied: I Mean who knows? I worked at a bar right off wall street and saw way more hard drug use in the open there with finance industry folks than I ever saw living in Brooklyn with minorities. If the suits were systematically arrested, went to prison, handed records that would bar them from getting their old job back, etc. for generations it's possible.

Again, when one demographic commits more violent crime than another, why would police focus their efforts on the group that commits less crime? That doesn't even make tactical sense.

You again mention that whites in your link were found with more weapons and contraband than minorities. I thought we already worked this out? The police only stopped and frisked whites that acted suspiciously, of course they will find more weapons and contraband of they do that. That was from your own link. And again I'm not saying the stop and frisk policy was right because it obviously is not.

Both yourself and Panamerican continue to focus on drug crimes saying something to the extent of "see, white people have just as much drugs as black people but they get roughed up more by the police, racism! Of the systematic variety!

Meanwhile, minorities (more specifically blacks) commit more violent crime than whites... Yet, according to the data in this thread, the police still kill more whites than they do blacks.

This is why no one takes your systematic racism argument seriously brother. It's a ship with cannonball sized holes in it.

 

[shockaholic12]

I posted: I'm sure you're right, but would you find an equal amount of homicides, assaults, and armed robberies?

And you replied: I Mean who knows? I worked at a bar right off wall street and saw way more hard drug use in the open there with finance industry folks than I ever saw living in Brooklyn with minorities. If the suits were systematically arrested, went to prison, handed records that would bar them from getting their old job back, etc. for generations it's possible.

Again, when one demographic commits more violent crime than another, why would police focus their efforts on the group that commits less crime? That doesn't even make tactical sense.

You again mention that whites in your link were found with more weapons and contraband than minorities. I thought we already worked this out? The police only stopped and frisked whites that acted suspiciously, of course they will find more weapons and contraband of they do that. That was from your own link. And again I'm not saying the stop and frisk policy was right because it obviously is not.

Both yourself and Panamerican continue to focus on drug crimes saying something to the extent of "see, white people have just as much drugs as black people but they get roughed up more by the police, racism! Of the systematic variety!

Meanwhile, minorities (more specifically blacks) commit more violent crime than whites... Yet, according to the data in this thread, the police still kill more whites than they do blacks.

This is why no one takes your systematic racism argument seriously brother. It's a ship with cannonball sized holes in it.

You're referencing the data that includes hispanics in the category of white so it's white + hispanic deaths are higher than blacks?

 

[MaxMMA]

You're referencing the data that includes hispanics in the category of white so it's white + hispanic deaths are higher than blacks?

I have no idea what you are referring too but I'm going to assume you are trying to curtail the data to fit your narrative.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

This Washington Post (highly liberal) database shows that more whites are killed than blacks. The other data in this thread shows that blacks commit more violent crime which probably explains why they are killed by police at higher rates despite there being less deaths than whites overall.

By chance I saw you post on page 2 of this thread trying to explain why more whites where killed than blacks, citing that stop and frisk link we have discussed to death.

Combine this with your post that I have quoted, I can only take this information to mean that you do not care about factual data and that you will say whatever you can to push the systematic racism nonsense.

You literally just asked me if I was referring to the studies where they combined white and Hispanic deaths (because you want me and others to believe that more blacks are killed than whites) when you have a post on page 2 admitting that more whites are killed than blacks and you are even using links to try to prove it.

Man, you really need to turn the screen off for a few weeks/months and get a firm grasp of the world we are ACTUALLY living in.

 

[panamaican]

I like how all the racism threads are 20+ pages but the thread with data is only 4. I guess it's hard to argue with the numbers?

@shockaholic12 weren't you the one telling me you didn't know if minorities committed as much violent crime as whites? @panamaican you never replied to my post asking why you always ignored the violent crime statistics in these race threads.

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't read everything that people write in response to me. I never ignore the violent crime statistics. I do ignore when they're applied out of context.

So, if you'd like to talk about violent crime statistics, I'm perfectly willing. But understand that will also include a length conversation of the history of segregation, denial of job opportunities to those residents for years, the introduction of drugs into black communities, the failure to properly fund education opportunities, etc.

Are we going to have that entire historical conversation or do you think we're just going to talk about violent crime statistics in a vacuum?

 

[MaxMMA]

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't read everything that people write in response to me. I never ignore the violent crime statistics. I do ignore when they're applied out of context.

So, if you'd like to talk about violent crime statistics, I'm perfectly willing. But understand that will also include a length conversation of the history of segregation, denial of job opportunities to those residents for years, the introduction of drugs into black communities, the failure to properly fund education opportunities, etc.

Are we going to have that entire historical conversation or do you think we're just going to talk about violent crime statistics in a vacuum?

Those arguments don't hold up, it's 2020. Everyone has the world's information in the palm of their hand and the US government makes it their business to make sure evey American doesn't have to live in 3rd world squalor via social welfare programs. (Another topic I am intimately familiar with if you want to talk about that.)

If you live in the United States and you are living in 3rd world conditions it is by personal choice. The section 8 office literally let's people pick from a huge list of hud approved properties that is not even restricted by state lines. All you have to do is come up with the $ to move your own shit. Even if you are dirt poor in this country you still don't have to live in a housing project.

 

[squeezewax]

A cop is 18.5 times more likely to be murdered by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be murdered by a cop.

In 2019 police fatally shot 10 unarmed black people,
and 19 unarmed white people. That's out of 328 million people.

"Black votes matter to many politicians, more so than black lives.
That is why such politicians must try to keep black voters fearful, angry, and resentful. Racial harmony would be political disaster for such politicians." - Thomas Sowell.

 

[panamaican]

Those arguments don't hold up, it's 2020. Everyone has the world's information in the palm of their hand and the US government makes it their business to make sure evey American doesn't have to live in 3rd world squalor via social welfare programs. (Another topic I am intimately familiar with if you want to talk about that.)

If you live in the United States and you are living in 3rd world conditions it is by personal choice. The section 8 office literally let's people pick from a huge list of hud approved properties that is not even restricted by state lines. All you have to do is come up with the $ to move your own shit. Even if you are dirt poor in this country you still don't have to live in a housing project.

Oh...I get it. You want to talk about things in 2020 while ignoring anything that would have led up to it. Not an honest conversation.

Just to humor myself...how far back are you taking your data, and why that stop point, or are we only talking about 2019 statistics without reference to any other time frame?

 

[chardog]

timestamped:



lord Tucker doing fine work

 

[CauseImbetta]

So this Floyd guy had a laundry list criminal record, it was released and he even held up a pregnant woman. Had tons of second chances. Then when he dies he has a funeral that would make King Tut jelous.

 

[Russky]

conversation of the history of segregation, denial of job opportunities to those residents for years, the introduction of drugs into black communities, the failure to properly fund education opportunities, etc.

I am in the US for 20+ years and I have never witnessed what you are describing. In California schools in low income areas receive more funds. Drugs is bigger problem in rich neighborhoods because they got more money for that. There is economic segregation that I do see, but it is not racial. Educate me, please.

Schools in the US suck everywhere. If we did not teach our kids on our own they would not perform well even if they went to the best school around. This is one of the key problem, and it is not money problem. This is cultural problem for the entire US society regardless to their color.

 

[Seano]

stats are fun. whites get killed more by cops than blacks do, blacks are responsible for over half the violent crime, blacks kill more whites then whites kill blacks, black on white rape is interesting too compared to the other way around. all in all, some people lying to us and controlling the narrative, but i get warned by the mods for mentioning shit like that around here.

ah, but percentages!

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

In 2019 there 370 white people and 253 black people per Washington post. 6 times as many white people in the US, so black people getting killed at a much higher rate per capita. However, per arrest white people actually get killed more than black people, 4% to 3%. The idea that a black person is more likely to die from an interaction with a cop seems to be untrue when looking at it from a per interaction standpoint.

without looking at posts that followed yours (i assume that someone has corrected you, but i want to make sure) it is .04% and .03%
it was per 10,000 arrests.
The cops are far less deadly than the criminals.
The courts are far less retarded than the mob.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

The police shouldn't be killing people that can be dealt with in a different way, people shouldn't be killing police if they don't have to... In a way, the statistics aren't important as it relates to races being killed by police, or shouldn't be important. The Irony is if people want to be acknowledged as equal to others, they have to view others as equal...

There's that poignant video of the politician who was vocally against police and the killing of minorities then was offered the chance to take part in a police exercise where he would have to deal with various incidents and interactions in a realistic way, he would have to decide how to handle various suspects. He "shot" the suspect in almost every instance, or said he would have and it changed his perspective and attitude completely...

People get very emotional then allow it to make their decisions and inform their perspective. How can this form of person be dealt with?

its amazing the numbers are so low. People are very bad at empathy. I get fucking mad at my job, just due to the physical strain and repetition of frustrating problems.... plus what is going on in your life, etc.

These guys have lack of sleep, they deal with the lowest of the low daily. They get called names, nobody likes them. of course they are going to be cynical and short on patience with a mouthy drugdealer or some prick that reminds them of the child rapist they tracked down last week, or the guy who beat his wife to death. Every day, hours of every day, dealing with scum.

I cant believe the numbers are so low. These peaceful protesters have already killed more innocent people than the cops have all year - in the name of how bad the cops are!

Take away every badge from all 500,000 cops, or whatever the number is, and replace them immediately with holier-than-thou twitter mob civilians, and itll be a fucking slaughter.

 

[MaxMMA]

Oh...I get it. You want to talk about things in 2020 while ignoring anything that would have led up to it. Not an honest conversation.

Just to humor myself...how far back are you taking your data, and why that stop point, or are we only talking about 2019 statistics without reference to any other time frame?

Haha you don't know me well enough to make those kind of assumptions. History is very well alive my friend, it is not static. But how far would you like to go back? And what else can be done to change the past? As I've already mentioned all colors have equal rights in our great country and our government at this point in time, for all it's faults, have proven that they don't want any of it's citizens to starve or live in squalor.

You are know there are insects that set things in motion millions of years ago that still affect the present. And if you know history as well as you claim, you know that black Americans are not unique in the subjugation and enslavement of their ancestors.

 

[MMABrooklyn]

In 2019 there 370 white people and 253 black people per Washington post. 6 times as many white people in the US, so black people getting killed at a much higher rate per capita. However, per arrest white people actually get killed more than black people, 4% to 3%. The idea that a black person is more likely to die from an interaction with a cop seems to be untrue when looking at it from a per interaction standpoint.

Black people are more likely to come into contact with police for b.s reasons, like for taking a taxi while Black:

https://www.nyclu.org/en/press-releases/nyclu-settlement-ends-stop-and-frisk-livery-cab-passengers

and every time you come in contact with police, it can go left, while whites come into contact with police over more serious matters.

 

[panamaican]

Haha you don't know me well enough to make those kind of assumptions. History is very well alive my friend, it is not static. But how far would you like to go back? And what else can be done to change the past? As I've already mentioned all colors have equal rights in our great country and our government at this point in time, for all it's faults, have proven that they don't want any of it's citizens to starve or live in squalor.

You are know there are insects that set things in motion millions of years ago that still affect the present. And if you know history as well as you claim, you know that black Americans are not unique in the subjugation and enslavement of their ancestors.

I'm not making any assumptions, I laid out what's relevant to the conversation from a timeline perspective. You responded that it wasn't relevant without any actual explanation as to why. So, blanket dismissals without criteria is the set up for a dishonest conversation.

If you're going to peddle the trope that past events have no bearing on current events then you need to tell me just how far back you think we should go because you've dismissed how far I think we should go. Otherwise, we're only talking about the current year's data.

Now, you're saying that we should go back to the beginning of recorded time? One minute you're saying the past isn't relevant, the next minute you're saying all of history is relevant. Just pick your start point and why so that we can eventually get to discussing the statistics themselves.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

timestamped:



lord Tucker doing fine work

Is there any formula that isn't completely arbitrary for determining which strangers are worthy of kneeling for and which aren't?

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

A cop is 18.5 times more likely to be murdered by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be murdered by a cop.

In 2019 police fatally shot 10 unarmed black people,
and 19 unarmed white people. That's out of 328 million people.

"Black votes matter to many politicians, more so than black lives.
That is why such politicians must try to keep black voters fearful, angry, and resentful. Racial harmony would be political disaster for such politicians." - Thomas Sowell.

The media is the enemy of the people.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

stats are fun. whites get killed more by cops than blacks do, blacks are responsible for over half the violent crime, blacks kill more whites then whites kill blacks, black on white rape is interesting too compared to the other way around. all in all, some people lying to us and controlling the narrative, but i get warned by the mods for mentioning shit like that around here.

Reasonable people think facts should dictate the narrative. Leftists think the opposite.

 

[MaxMMA]

I'm not making any assumptions, I laid out what's relevant to the conversation from a timeline perspective. You responded that it wasn't relevant without any actual explanation as to why. So, blanket dismissals without criteria is the set up for a dishonest conversation.

If you're going to peddle the trope that past events have no bearing on current events then you need to tell me just how far back you think we should go because you've dismissed how far I think we should go. Otherwise, we're only talking about the current year's data.

Now, you're saying that we should go back to the beginning of recorded time? One minute you're saying the past isn't relevant, the next minute you're saying all of history is relevant. Just pick your start point and why so that we can eventually get to discussing the statistics themselves.

All history has shaped the present and you are wrong, ALL past events shape our present reality. My question is what do YOU propose we do with this information? When a group of people who have been subjugated are given the same rights as everyone else, what else needs to happen?

People are sick of seeing the cops over step themselves, myself included, but no one is really interested in talking about making any changes that will actually put an end to the amount of brutality we have. the American people (black included) have decided that they prefer more state control over freedom, so we have chosen to see cops get out of hand, its inevitable with the level of state control that the american people want.

That aside, if you live in the US and you are honest with yourself, you know that the police are not out in the street gunning for minorities. The actual numbers do not support this narrative. There are 328 million people in this country and less than 2000 people in 2019 were shot and killed by the police, and that number includes justifiable slayings. 328,000,000 against less than 2000. There is a long list of things that are rotting our country from the inside out. Police Brutality and racism are at the very bottom of that list in the year 2020.