Law Arizona House votes to repeal 1864 law banning abortions

[Seano]

Incredible reasoning on display here. We are all better for having read your three word sentence on a topic this complex and nuanced. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

Get bent, you're not confused about my stance or what I'm saying one bit.

 

[dirtypablo]

Not getting pregnant is also ownership over your actions. Why is it impossible for you guys to admit that not getting pregnant in the first place is more responsible than getting pregnant and getting an abortion?

Don't even bring up rape because we arent talking about rape here. We're talking about consensual sex that leads to a pregnancy and abortion. It's like pulling teeth to get liberals to admit that people actually need to be responsible for their own actions BEFORE the abortion takes place.

Because not everyone thinks there's something wrong with getting an abortion. Your position is that you shouldn't let it get to that point, because you believe getting an abortion is wrong. But if you don't think having an abortion is wrong, its not irresponsible to put yourself in a situation where you might need to get one.

 

[Sweater of AV]

I don't even understand the point you're making. So there should be no restrictions on abortions?

Again, you completely ignored the personality responsibility part of not getting pregnant. Why can't you even admit that much?



Not getting pregnant is also ownership over your actions. Why is it impossible for you guys to admit that not getting pregnant in the first place is more responsible than getting pregnant and getting an abortion?

Don't even bring up rape because we arent talking about rape here. We're talking about consensual sex that leads to a pregnancy and abortion. It's like pulling teeth to get liberals to admit that people actually need to be responsible for their own actions BEFORE the abortion takes place.

The night you lose your virginity is going to be special.

 

[Sinister]

I 100% agree when it comes to rape but that's really a very small part of a person's personal responsibility.



I guess the base ideology is when a person decides that the babies life has value when it's inside of the mother's stomach. Some people think it's at conception and other people think it has zero value until it passes through the birth canal. I personally think there is no perfect way to ever answer that question so I'm fine with a first trimester compromise.

Since we're in a thread about abortions, lets apply personal responsibility to the subject matter. Women abort children as a method of birth control far more than they do because they got raped. Why isn't personal responsibility applied to the men and women who have unprotected sex and conceive a child that they either don't want or don't have the means of caring for?

You don't trip and fall down and get pregnant. Getting pregnant takes a pretty deliberate act. Personal responsibility would be not risking getting pregnant for a night of pleasure. There are plenty of ways to still get the same or similar pleasure without risking a pregnancy but a lot of people throw that out the window for a night of fun. That's the personal responsibility I'm talking about. Take ownership of your actions.

So your contention is that people should be forced to have babies they dont want, to be parents they're bot equipped to be, because they were irresponsible? Having a baby is a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex?

Religious nutters absolutely believe that. But are you also saying that?

I had a parent who didnt want to be a parent and was emotionally and mentally ill-equipped to be a parent, it royally f*cked my life up.

 

[Zazen]

"Abortion prevents homelessness, use your brain"....

Jesus fucking Christ.

You realize there’s studies on this topic right? I’m not just pulling this out of my ass. You think unloved children growing up in poverty mostly become well functioning adults? Really dude?

 

[PhitePhan]

I had a parent who didnt want to be a parent and was emotionally and mentally ill-equipped to be a parent, it royally f*cked my life up.

So your argument is that your mom should have had an abortion, ya?

 

[Sinister]

So your argument is that your mom should have had an abortion, ya?

My argument is my Mother had a choice.

She chose to have me. Great.

If she hadn't...no longer my problem.

 

[Sinister]

You realize there’s studies on this topic right? I’m not just pulling this out of my ass. You think unloved children growing up in poverty mostly become well functioning adults? Really dude?

Well if they become the people sleeping and defecating in the streets you can rest assured these Pro Lifers will vote for their imprisonment where their labor will be farmed out to corporations so we can keep immigration down.

 

[jefferz]

"Abortion prevents homelessness, use your brain"....

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[RoastBeast]

Because not everyone thinks there's something wrong with getting an abortion. Your position is that you shouldn't let it get to that point, because you believe getting an abortion is wrong. But if you don't think having an abortion is wrong, its not irresponsible to put yourself in a situation where you might need to get one.

There is something wrong with you if you think that getting pregnant and then going to the hospital to have the baby sucked out of you is just some normal procedure that has no shameful impact to it.

Can you comment at all on personal responsibility when it comes to not getting pregnant or are you just going to float by that one again?

So your contention is that people should be forced to have babies they dont want, to be parents they're bot equipped to be, because they were irresponsible? Having a baby is a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex?

Religious nutters absolutely believe that. But are you also saying that?

I had a parent who didnt want to be a parent and was emotionally and mentally ill-equipped to be a parent, it royally f*cked my life up.

I already said first trimester abortions were fine. Remember you're not talking to a "religious nutter" here. Just someone who can be honest about both sides of the argument.

Yes having a baby has been a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex for all of human existence before modern medicine was invented. Do you even read this stuff before you type it? I mean come on dude. If you don't want a kid, don't have unprotected sex. Personal responsibility. Why is it so hard for you guys to admit that people need to have sex responsibly? Such an odd thing to completely avoid saying.

I'm sorry your parent sucked and I do truly feel bad. Even though I disagree with nearly everything you say on every political subject, I'm still glad you weren't aborted.

 

[dirtypablo]

Yes having a baby has been a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex for all of human existence before modern medicine was invented. Do you even read this stuff before you type it? I mean come on dude.

Are you not aware of the fact that people have been killing their babies for all of human history? That for much of our history, it was a common practice to just toss a baby out if you didn't want it? You realize that the viewpoint that children are special and should be protected is largely a new one, and for most of our history children were considered disposable, correct? Or are you seriously so ignorant here that you think this is something new?

I couldn't care less about your arguments regarding personal responsibility - as I already pointed out, they're only relevant if you think abortion is morally wrong. I especially couldn't care less about those arguments, because they're always being made without any degree of acknowledgement about the realities of male/female dynamics and how those dynamics relate to this issue. Ask a woman if she's ever had sex with a man who took the condom off without her consent or knowledge. Ask a woman if she was ever pressured into having sex with an aggressive man that outweighed her by 100 lbs. Look at the number of deadbeat dads in society, the degree to which men push for casual sex vs women pushing for casual sex, the number of men who lie and tell women they want something serious as way to get laid then vanish, and honestly tell me that if men were the ones getting pregnant that the rates of abortion wouldn't be 100 times higher. You acknowledge those realities and the unfairness of this issue towards women and I'll give a shit about your 'responsibility' argument.

 

[Sinister]

There is something wrong with you if you think that getting pregnant and then going to the hospital to have the baby sucked out of you is just some normal procedure that has no shameful impact to it.

Can you comment at all on personal responsibility when it comes to not getting pregnant or are you just going to float by that one again?



I already said first trimester abortions were fine. Remember you're not talking to a "religious nutter" here. Just someone who can be honest about both sides of the argument.

Yes having a baby has been a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex for all of human existence before modern medicine was invented. Do you even read this stuff before you type it? I mean come on dude. If you don't want a kid, don't have unprotected sex. Personal responsibility. Why is it so hard for you guys to admit that people need to have sex responsibly? Such an odd thing to completely avoid saying.

I'm sorry your parent sucked and I do truly feel bad. Even though I disagree with nearly everything you say on every political subject, I'm still glad you weren't aborted.

I dont think you're being honest about both sides of the argument, but I do think you believe you are.

Are you under the general impression that before modern medicine people just HAD to be parents? I cant even begin to describe how naive that is. I've read accounts from nurses who spoke to elderly women (in homes) about how unwanted pregnancy was handled before abortions existed as a social concept, and it was pretty much everything the right rail against. People definitely didnt just get roped into being parents when they didnt want to be, abortions were just much more unsafe, more barbaric, and happened far later than you would consider acceptable.

If I was aborted it wouldn't effect anyone here in any way, and I'd have never known about it. It literally would have only effected my Mother. That being said, I'm not my Mother's sentence or consequence for having sex with my Father. And if I were younger generations I'd take exception to being referred to as such. Fortunately there's every indication that Gen Z and Gen Alpha do.

 

[steveflynn]

There is something wrong with you if you think that getting pregnant and then going to the hospital to have the baby sucked out of you is just some normal procedure that has no shameful impact to it.

Can you comment at all on personal responsibility when it comes to not getting pregnant or are you just going to float by that one again?



I already said first trimester abortions were fine. Remember you're not talking to a "religious nutter" here. Just someone who can be honest about both sides of the argument.

Yes having a baby has been a suitable sentence for the offense of having recreational sex for all of human existence before modern medicine was invented. Do you even read this stuff before you type it? I mean come on dude. If you don't want a kid, don't have unprotected sex. Personal responsibility. Why is it so hard for you guys to admit that people need to have sex responsibly? Such an odd thing to completely avoid saying.

I'm sorry your parent sucked and I do truly feel bad. Even though I disagree with nearly everything you say on every political subject, I'm still glad you weren't aborted.

Hate to break it to you but getting abortions is a pretty normal procedure and has been going on ever since humans have existed. It’s better to just make it as safe as possible. And also really don’t think it’s a very good policy to force people who don’t want to have a baby have the baby.

 

[RoastBeast]

Are you not aware of the fact that people have been killing their babies for all of human history? That for much of our history, it was a common practice to just toss a baby out if you didn't want it? You realize that the viewpoint that children are special and should be protected is largely a new one, and for most of our history children were considered disposable, correct? Or are you seriously so ignorant here that you think this is something new?

I couldn't care less about your arguments regarding personal responsibility - as I already pointed out, they're only relevant if you think abortion is morally wrong. I especially couldn't care less about those arguments, because they're always being made without any degree of acknowledgement about the realities of male/female dynamics and how those dynamics relate to this issue. Ask a woman if she's ever had sex with a man who took the condom off without her consent or knowledge. Ask a woman if she was ever pressured into having sex with an aggressive man that outweighed her by 100 lbs. Look at the number of deadbeat dads in society, the degree to which men push for casual sex vs women pushing for casual sex, the number of men who lie and tell women they want something serious as way to get laid then vanish, and honestly tell me that if men were the ones getting pregnant that the rates of abortion wouldn't be 100 times higher. You acknowledge those realities and the unfairness of this issue towards women and I'll give a shit about your 'responsibility' argument.

Is your logic really that something is okay to do because we've been doing it for all of human history? I guess rape is acceptable as well, right? Rethink your logic bud.

Just like I thought, personal responsibility only applies when the woman goes in to get an abortion but she has no personal responsibility for her actions before that very moment. You avoid this by pretending you don't give a shit. If you don't give a shit, then don't engage me in conversation when I'm talking about personal responsibility.

I already said that none of this applies to women that have been raped and I already covered that I'm not a no abortion after conception guy so I've already acknowledged a hell of a lot and I can't get any of you to even acknowledge that a woman has responsibility over her own actions before she walks into the abortion clinic. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over because you cannot be honest about basic human responsibilities.

It's like you think that all abortions are just rape situations and that's not even close to the truth.

I dont think you're being honest about both sides of the argument, but I do think you believe you are.

Are you under the general impression that before modern medicine people just HAD to be parents? I cant even begin to describe how naive that is. I've read accounts from nurses who spoke to elderly women (in homes) about how unwanted pregnancy was handled before abortions existed as a social concept, and it was pretty much everything the right rail against. People definitely didnt just get roped into being parents when they didnt want to be, abortions were just much more unsafe, more barbaric, and happened far later than you would consider acceptable.

If I was aborted it wouldn't effect anyone here in any way, and I'd have never known about it. It literally would have only effected my Mother. That being said, I'm not my Mother's sentence or consequence for having sex with my Father. And if I were younger generations I'd take exception to being referred to as such. Fortunately there's every indication that Gen Z and Gen Alpha do.

Everything you say that people "used" to do just involves people who didn't exercise personal responsibility.

Again, you cannot admit that there is any personal responsibility other than walking into an abortion clinic so we are done here as well.

If you ever want to be honest about this conversation, we can have it. Until then I have no desire to go back and forth with a liar that avoids the most basic and simple questions imaginable.

 

[RoastBeast]

Hate to break it to you but getting abortions is a pretty normal procedure and has been going on ever since humans have existed. It’s better to just make it as safe as possible. And also really don’t think it’s a very good policy to force people who don’t want to have a baby have the baby.

Lots of things have been going on since humans have existed that have been abhorrent. Simply making a bad thing slightly better is not good logic.

Care to take a stab at the personal responsibility part of not getting pregnant in the first place? I'm referring to all the women who have consensual sex and then abort afterward. Not rapes. Would love to see if at least one person here can be honest about this question.

 

[Sinister]

Is your logic really that something is okay to do because we've been doing it for all of human history? I guess rape is acceptable as well, right? Rethink your logic bud.

Just like I thought, personal responsibility only applies when the woman goes in to get an abortion but she has no personal responsibility for her actions before that very moment. You avoid this by pretending you don't give a shit. If you don't give a shit, then don't engage me in conversation when I'm talking about personal responsibility.

I already said that none of this applies to women that have been raped and I already covered that I'm not a no abortion after conception guy so I've already acknowledged a hell of a lot and I can't get any of you to even acknowledge that a woman has responsibility over her own actions before she walks into the abortion clinic. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over because you cannot be honest about basic human responsibilities.

It's like you think that all abortions are just rape situations and that's not even close to the truth.




Everything you say that people "used" to do just involves people who didn't exercise personal responsibility.

Again, you cannot admit that there is any personal responsibility other than walking into an abortion clinic so we are done here as well.

If you ever want to be honest about this conversation, we can have it. Until then I have no desire to go back and forth with a liar that avoids the most basic and simple questions imaginable.

A liar? I haven't lied about anything at all. You're lying, because you keep saying abortion is NOT an exercise of personal responsibility, it is. It's just one you have an issue with generally speaking. For one thing you keep singling out women specifically as if it's entirely the woman's decision, many women are pressured into abortions by men who dont want children all the time. And you keep speaking in a manner suggestive that a pregnancy is some sort of consequence someone must accept of their actions.

And in your venomously toned replies you keep missing a basic concept. Legalizing safe abortions and encouraging women's reproductive rights and health assures that more women go to clinics WITHIN the time frame you deem acceptable, because it normalizes going to clinics in general, and more regularly. My ex-fiance got all her birth control from Planned Parenthood for free, along with her exams. You'd vote for d*ckheads who want to defund Planned Parenthood behind the rhetoric of all the nonsense propaganda that came out about them. But the fact that she could get regular exams, if the birth control ever failed, the pregnancy would likely have been detected early enough to have what you would consider a "good" abortion. When you create an air of fear around the issue, women are much more likely to make bad emotional decisions, which lead to much worse situations.

 

[RoastBeast]

A liar? I haven't lied about anything at all. You're lying, because you keep saying abortion is NOT an exercise of personal responsibility, it is. It's just one you have an issue with generally speaking. For one thing you keep singling out women specifically as if it's entirely the woman's decision, many women are pressured into abortions by men who dont want children all the time. And you keep speaking in a manner suggestive that a pregnancy is some sort of consequence someone must accept of their actions.

And in your venomously toned replies you keep missing a basic concept. Legalizing safe abortions and encouraging women's reproductive rights and health assures that more women go to clinics WITHIN the time frame you deem acceptable, because it normalizes going to clinics in general, and more regularly. My ex-fiance got all her birth control from Planned Parenthood for free, along with her exams. You'd vote for d*ckheads who want to defund Planned Parenthood behind the rhetoric of all the nonsense propaganda that came out about them. But the fact that she could get regular exams, if the birth control ever failed, the pregnancy would likely have been detected early enough to have what you would consider a "good" abortion. When you create an air of fear around the issue, women are much more likely to make bad emotional decisions, which lead to much worse situations.

I'm speaking in a manner suggestive that pregnancy is some sort of consequence someone must accept of their actions? Yeah man, it's called biology. Something you guys don't seem to understand anymore. I know you pretend to not know the difference in men and women but are you guys now pretending that you don't know how babies are made?

Again you just cannot seem to bring yourself to admit that there is personal responsibility involved in not getting pregnant in the first place. Your entire argument is an absolute farce because of this. I can't even take anything you say seriously because you cannot bring yourself to admit this very simple fact that everyone else on the planet already knows.

Your ideologies are wildly out of control when simple questions have you completely stumped.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Imagine if we devoted the same energy to homelessness or poverty as we do the right to abort babies.
This country has lost its way.

It's religious radicals fighting to force women to have babies that are wasting their energy. If you're honest and look at the election results it's obvious it's a minority pushing their beliefs on others.

 

[PhitePhan]

It's religious radicals fighting to force women to have babies that are wasting their energy. If you're honest and look at the election results it's obvious it's a minority pushing their beliefs on others.

Do you think abortion is a good thing?

 

[steveflynn]

Lots of things have been going on since humans have existed that have been abhorrent. Simply making a bad thing slightly better is not good logic.

Care to take a stab at the personal responsibility part of not getting pregnant in the first place? I'm referring to all the women who have consensual sex and then abort afterward. Not rapes. Would love to see if at least one person here can be honest about this question.

But thinking that getting an abortion is abhorrent is your opinion moral opinion. Nothing more than that. It’s a very medically safe procedure.