International Biden Admin takes next step toward WWIII - Blinken "Ukraine will become a member of NATO"

[Rod1]

None of the countries the US faced bordered them. And none of them were viewed as an existential threat. That’s not the case with Ukraine. That Russia views them this way is also not news, see Brzezinski, Mearsheimer and Cohen et. al.

Everything is an existential threat when you are Russia and looking for an excuse to invade a neighbor.

That's how Russia managed to be the largest country on Earth.

 

[PurpleDrank]

So to be clear, if someone is against the U.S involvement in the war, theyve been propagandized by Russia?

 

[Rod1]

So to be clear, if someone is against the U.S involvement in the war, theyve been propagandized by Russia?

If you are against the US involvement in the war because you are a nihilist who doesn't gives a shit if China or Russia invade other countries and take over the world then that's a valid point to have.

Most people who are against US involvement are pro-Russian though.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

So to be clear, if someone is against the U.S involvement in the war, theyve been propagandized by Russia?

nah, that position in itself is rhetorical blackmail - better support or you're a russian bot! of course it's nonsense. people that use it are the ones that have capitulated intellectually. you never hear that shit in real life, only on forums or twitter. you can formulate your own opinions about the whole thing and just ignore whoever is kvetching about it. but be mindful of the obscene amounts of lies each side puts online.

 

[PurpleDrank]

If you are against the US involvement in the war because you are a nihilist who doesn't gives a shit if China or Russia invade other countries and take over the world then that's a valid point to have.

Most people who are against US involvement are pro-Russian though.

If someone comes to the position from a principled anti interventionalist stance you arent buying it? I dont think you have to necessarily be a nihilist to not buy that the U.S has to be involved here or they lose geopolitically to Russia and China.

 

[Rod1]

If someone comes to the position from a principled anti interventionalist stance you arent buying it?

The whole put the other cheek mentality may seem principled on your part, it looks nihilistic on mine

I dont think you have to necessarily be a nihilist to not buy that the U.S has to be involved here or they lose geopolitically to Russia and China.

If you let Russia get away with invading a pro-western country to install a puppet dictatorship you are losing geopolitically.

 

[Rod1]

on paper or in reality?

The US didn't annexed Iraq in any way or form.

and ukrainian president didnt want to antagonize russia and was removed in a western backed coup... thats the whole point.

Again, SNAP elections happened, and then another election happened.

You know where elections didn't happen? the parts that Russia annexed.

 

[PBAC]

Everything is an existential threat when you are Russia and looking for an excuse to invade a neighbor.

That's how Russia managed to be the largest country on Earth.

not because it's entire eastern half is a thundra no one really wanted?

 

[Rod1]

not because it's entire eastern half is a thundra no one really wanted?

tell that to China.

 

[hitcher]

Everything is an existential threat when you are Russia and looking for an excuse to invade a neighbor.

That's how Russia managed to be the largest country on Earth.

Ok. Great insight and good way to dodge a discussion. Have fun.

 

[Rod1]

Ok. Great insight and good way to dodge a discussion. Have fun.

Not dodging a question there.

Russia will decide whether it will end the world or not, but it will be Russia's decision.

 

[grimballer]

The US didn't annexed Iraq in any way or form.

why is us in syria again?

Again, SNAP elections happened, and then another election happened.

You know where elections didn't happen? the parts that Russia annexed.

actually elections did happen.

people in crimea voted in 2014 to leave ukraine and join russia.

same happened in donbas in 2022.

now just cause you don't like these results don't mean they didn't happen.

 

[grimballer]

How did they "expand" to the east? Which countries all the sudden joined after 2014? And before you answer that question just remember I served 3 tours under Operation Atlantic Resolve.

ukraine was the red line after 2 decades of nato expansionism which was obvious provocation

Pretty sure something happened to negate that deal.

nato lying and trying to expand its sphere of influence

I didn't study up much of this since I was in Afghanistan with it happened. But then again, I didn't talk to any American soldiers that were rioting over there in Ukraine when that coup happened. Pretty sure we didn't have any boots on ground during that.

yeah, all these color revolutions organically with no outside interference.

western governments and ngos pouring money into ukraine to "promote democracy" has nothing to do with it.

Again... pretty sure some things that happened to make him say that.

western governments told him to do so

 

[Joe]

You are anti-American.

Russia is not communist.

If you cared for Ukranians you would support peace talks. Putin sits alone at the negotiating table.

It's people like you who have failed the Ukranians supporting this nonsensical war. If Ukraine hadn't canceled the last three elections, Zelensky would be in the history books. Ukrainians would elect someone willing to negotiate with Putin.

Putin doesnt want peace. How many damn times must he say it for you to believe it? If he wanted peace wouldnt have invaded ukraine

 

[Copper Burner]

Putin doesnt want peace. How many damn times must he say it for you to believe it? If he wanted peace wouldnt have invaded ukraine

Russians cannot have peace knowing that Nato is building up their military in Ukraine. They cannot have peace with 10 CIA bases in Ukraine etc.

Sometimes you have to fight for peace. Russia has been forced to react to western aggression that has proven time and time again that they are corrupt. And morons like you side with the aggressive and corrupt side.

You're not the brightest crayon in the box. You are a shade of brown.

 

[curryjunkie]

Russians cannot have peace knowing that Nato is building up their military in Ukraine. They cannot have peace with 10 CIA bases in Ukraine etc.

Sometimes you have to fight for peace. Russia has been forced to react to western aggression that has proven time and time again that they are corrupt. And morons like you side with the aggressive and corrupt side.

You're not the brightest crayon in the box. You are a shade of brown.

 

[Mr Holmes]

So to be clear, if someone is against the U.S involvement in the war, theyve been propagandized by Russia?

Sadly that is what these clowns believe.

 

[Xuh]

Putin doesnt want peace. How many damn times must he say it for you to believe it? If he wanted peace wouldnt have invaded ukraine

Putler tried surprisingly hard to avoid a major war, first with the Minsk treaties which saw Russia trying to push Donbass back into Ukraine and also saw a crackdown on people calling for war in Russia (eg ultra-nationalist bloggers were arrested, guys like Dugin were fired from their jobs in Universities etc). Then most tellingly, after the initial incursion Russia & Ukraine were about to come to an agreement which again, would have kept Donbass in the Ukraine, but the USA fearing an outbreak of peace stopping the war they tried so hard to start and finally were getting, sent lacky Boris Johnson to tell the Ukes they weren't allowed to make peace. This has been confirmed from multiple independent primary sources (eg, this one from the then-Israeli prime minister who was mediating the peace talks).

If Putin wanted war so much why would he have done either of those things? Why not just send the tanks in immediately in 2014 when it would have been a cakewalk militarily?
If the USA wanted peace, why would it take steps to block a treaty both the Ukrainian and Russian leaderships were willing to agree to?

It's the CIA/US State Dept that made sure this war happened with decades of preparation, and blocked any chance of peace once it had started (that would be counter to the aim of NATO - 'keep the Russians out, the Germans down, and the Americans in'. E.g. destroying Nordstream keeps the Germans down and the Russians 'out' of Europe - we're not allowed to build our own independent relationships - that would be bad for US hegemony!). Russia invaded because the CIA had created a completely unacceptable security situation on their border (a recent NYT article by the CIA openly talked about the multiple bases, high level espionage, subterfuge, and even death squads (!) they had trained in Ukraine since 2014 - not mentioned of course was nuclear primacy, but Zelinsky had openly talked about getting nukes) and in what were historic Russian lands (Crimea in particular, which also hosts the most important Russian Naval base). Talk about what 'Putler' personally wants is a propaganda red herring - any Russian leader would have been forced to do the same, as would any Chinese leader, as would any American leader if a similar situation was playing out in Mexico or Canada, and all of them would have been justified to do so.

 

[nixkid]

Funny how quickly these Russophiles masquerading as "anti-war" types turn to Bush era arguments for preemptive war.

 

[calavera2]

So to be clear, if someone is against the U.S involvement in the war, theyve been propagandized by Russia?

Not at all....now if you parrot Russian propaganda while vilifying the USA in spite of facts on the ground....well you gotta call a spade a spade.