Social Can homeless people be fined for sleeping outside? A rural Oregon city asks the US Supreme Court

[panamaican]

OK but no one was suggesting a 'no sleeping during the day' law except you.

You think homeless people are only sleeping outside during the day?

I walk to court several days a week for work.

On any given day, I'll pass 2-3 homeless people sleeping while the working set walk right past them. In the winter, they're sleeping on the grates trying to soak up the hot air. Those people are easy to target. But I don't live that far from a pretty nice greenspace that people walk through on their way to and from work. And who do you think is sleeping on those benches at 10am? The homeless. In the afternoon or early evening, you occasionally get an older, non-homeless person, who sat down to read a book or magazine or whatever and dozed off. But there are plenty of times where there are no benches to sit because some homeless person has stretched out across the benches to sleep off whatever he/she has put themselves through.

If you're not going to penalize sleeping during the day -- what's the point? No one with a home is using the benches at midnight, lol.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

You think homeless people are only sleeping outside during the day?

No. I never said that. You did.

 

[panamaican]

No. I never said that. You did.

You think homeless people are only sleeping outside during the night?

I walk to court several days a week for work.

On any given day, I'll pass 2-3 homeless people sleeping while the working set walk right past them. In the winter, they're sleeping on the grates trying to soak up the hot air. Those people are easy to target. But I don't live that far from a pretty nice greenspace that people walk through on their way to and from work. And who do you think is sleeping on those benches at 10am? The homeless. In the afternoon or early evening, you occasionally get an older, non-homeless person, who sat down to read a book or magazine or whatever and dozed off. But there are plenty of times where there are no benches to sit because some homeless person has stretched out across the benches to sleep off whatever he/she has put themselves through.

If you're not going to penalize sleeping during the day -- what's the point? No one with a home is using the benches at midnight, lol.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

You think homeless people are only sleeping outside during the night?

Nope. Never said they did.

But if you closes parks at night, now you have a charge you can use to get them off the street.

Which is what this is all about. Getting violent criminals off the street where they can't hurt innocent people or steal/damage property.

 

[ferrisjso]

Fine. 99%

All those 99% have their own individual unique story how they got there as theres so many ways in late capitalist society. If you actually had to look at each story and decide I guareentee you'd come to a number way lower than that. Especially ones where drugs were the cause of the problems opposed to simply being a symptom of them. Right wing people(some anyway) are capable of emphasizing with individuals but large groups they simply cannot. If you hear the individual story they're like oh "well thats different". Well the people making policy decisions aren't going to save your favorite hobo. Thats not how policy works and in turn thats not how protecting marginalized people works.

 

[Madmick]

The final one even, you (in particular) might say.

Ah, a good old-fashioned Godwin's Law sighting.

Concession accepted.

 

[therealdope]

It seems like you might think that I am advocating for letting homeless people go wherever they want. If that's the case then you missed the point.

Broken window theory. If you allow the non-belligerent homeless to overrun your public spaces in dense areas, the belligerent/addicted ones will follow and accumulate.

In the last 5 yrs all of our charitable donations are to one local youth oriented charity that provides housing, medical, and skills training for homeless young people that are at risk of being long-term homeless. The young people that this charity targeted were at high risk but also high reward because they had not been homeless for a long time. The program has had good results and that is why we continued to donate (substantially).

Here is the problem. Our city is a regional medical center with several specialty hospitals and a large university. The city has homeless programs. Surrounding areas have decided to send people to our city and the downtown is getting shit (literally) and the park system is full of homeless encampments. The youth oriented charity that we donate to is buying up old motels to house these drug using lunatics in the city, where property is pricey. So even the funds that are donated, are wasted on expensive projects that help too few and attract even more homeless from further away.

The result is a reinforcement of the expression: The more you pay, the more you get.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

All those 99% have their own individual unique story how they got there as theres so many ways in late capitalist society.

Oh fuck off lmao.

I lived in a high crime area before I moved out to the country and honestly fuck all those people. I don't give a shit what their story is. It doesn't excuse stealing everything that isn't nailed down, breaking in to cars and houses and leaving garbage, broken bottles and used needles all over the fucking place.

 

[Andy Capp]

Ah, a good old-fashioned Godwin's Law sighting.

Concession accepted.

You said it, not me.

 

[ferrisjso]

Oh fuck off lmao.

I lived in a high crime area before I moved out to the country and honestly fuck all those people. I don't give a shit what their story is. It doesn't excuse stealing everything that isn't nailed down, breaking in to cars and houses and leaving garbage, broken bottles and used needles all over the fucking place.

This entire society is predatory. Its late capitalism and theres nothing wrong with saying that which warrants a fuck off. Yup people hate actually blaming the actual cause of problems. You want to blame the victims instead. Your priority is protecting the illusion that made their problems possible in the first place.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

This entire society is predatory. Its late capitalism and theres nothing wrong with saying that which warrants a fuck off. Yup people hate actually blaming the actual cause of problems. You want to blame the victims instead. Your priority is protecting the illusion that made their problems possible in the first place.

Capitalism isn't the problem. If it is, explain how things went so wrong in all the communist countries.

The problem in the modern West is too much socialism has been introduced to a system that can't support it other than by robbing the citizens of more and more of their income and freedom.

 

[NoSmilez]

They have it hard enough. Criminalizing homelessness isn't really the answer. You either try to solve the issue or play hide the homeless somewhere else.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

They have it hard enough. Criminalizing homelessness isn't really the answer. You either try to solve the issue or play hide the homeless somewhere else.

The issue with homeless people isn't the homelessness. It's all the fucking crimes they commit.

 

[Poon Goon]

Broken window theory. If you allow the non-belligerent homeless to overrun your public spaces in dense areas, the belligerent/addicted ones will follow and accumulate.

So use existing laws to stop the spaces from being overrun. Curfew, loitering, panhandling, and of course anything else if the belligerents/addicts show up.

In the last 5 yrs all of our charitable donations are to one local youth oriented charity that provides housing, medical, and skills training for homeless young people that are at risk of being long-term homeless. The young people that this charity targeted were at high risk but also high reward because they had not been homeless for a long time.

Ok

The program has had good results and that is why we continued to donate (substantially).

I was already impressed, but once I saw "substantially" it really put it over the top.

Here is the problem. Our city is a regional medical center with several specialty hospitals and a large university. The city has homeless programs. Surrounding areas have decided to send people to our city and the downtown is getting shit (literally) and the park system is full of homeless encampments. The youth oriented charity that we donate to is buying up old motels to house these drug using lunatics in the city, where property is pricey. So even the funds that are donated, are wasted on expensive projects that help too few and attract even more homeless from further away.

The result is a reinforcement of the expression: The more you pay, the more you get.

I'm not sure that giving fines for sleeping outside is going to fix this problem.

 

[ferrisjso]

Capitalism isn't the problem. If it is, explain how things went so wrong in all the communist countries.

The problem in the modern West is too much socialism has been introduced to a system that can't support it other than by robbing the citizens of more and more of their income and freedom.

Lol.

With all due respect the argument that Communism(much of which wasn't Communism but for the sake of argument I'm accepting the BS) went so wrong for killing a small fraction of capitalisms victims(something studies aren't ran on) is deeply offensive.

Governments moral obligation is to provide for their people also socialism. Without socialism governments do not have legitamacy. And thats the reason govts want social programs so people don't fucking overhthrow them. The US is so fucking high on their self righteous nonsense they dont care.

This is a capitalist country. Do you know welfare literally does not even exist and right wingers are chasing a ghost like the ghost busters? Clinton killed welfare 30 years ago. Right after the USSR fell. You know why? Cause the USSR was capitalisms only incentive to behave in the event they'd forment revolution(China is more introverted). With the USSR gone the mask came off and 35 years later this is the result. But everything the west ever had indirectly they got from the Soviets who get nothing but fucking shit for it from people who have no fucking clue.

 

[RoñaCastroJr]

How does that address the problem though? So they are removed from the park. Then what?

put them.in a fuking lot
invest in social plans to.make them work
INVEST the tax payers in the developing of the poor, instrad of it all going to politics scumbags corporation puppets pockets

 

[koquerelle]

So much empathy in this thread. Some of you would make scary politicians.

 

[therealdope]

I'm not sure that giving fines for sleeping outside is going to fix this problem.

Agreed.

 

[HereticBD]

They have it hard enough. Criminalizing homelessness isn't really the answer. You either try to solve the issue or play hide the homeless somewhere else.

In the western world, we should be criminalizing politicians for even having homelessness. Not that it should be a free for all, but there's really no excuse for it in the west with all our resources. A war breaks out a million miles away, and the government is all of sudden tripping over billions and billions of dollars that they previously said they didn't have to help their own population, to help another people's population.

 

[RoñaCastroJr]

So much empathy in this thread. Some of you would make scary politicians.

YOU would make a scary politician