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She was out, but the bell saved her and you have to give it to the ref for not stopping it as well. He could have easily ended the fight.
Can someone explain the Yan/Weiling end of the first round situation?
- Thread starter TGArthur
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Her being out cold should've been the key to stopping the fight.
Not sure why they let her go on.
It is very simple, that is how the sport works and the ref for once did a commendable job not f'in it up. Despite what all the people here that don't watch fights adamantly claim, unconsciousness does not end a fight, refs do, go ask Jalin Turner.
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The commentators said something about had she not been able to get back to her corner under her own volition that it would've been called between rounds
De'Randame punchz Holm after the horn - we learned crystal clear "It is the ref that stops a round... not the horn." The horn is only the indicator to the ref. The round is not officially over until the ref stops it.
IOW... all things are fair until the ref steps in to separate them. This is a subtle, but important thing to understand when being a fighter... as well as being a fan or commentator who discusses deeze tingz.
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Can anyone explain why the ref let the fight continue after Reyes knocked Jiri out with an upkick?
Sometimes when you're out for only a split second, the ref just doesn't realize it. And when Herzog checked on Yan, she was standing, responding, and so on, so he assumed she had only been woozy, not unconscious.
Sometimes when you're out for only a split second, the ref just doesn't realize it. And when Herzog checked on Yan, she was standing, responding, and so on, so he assumed she had only been woozy, not unconscious.
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I gotta bring this up a lot. The ref is the sole arbiter of the rules until the winner is announced. There was a viral clip once of a guy winning by knockout, then deciding to stand on the KO'ed opponent and attempting a front flip off of him in celebration. He was DQ'ed even though the 'action' was already called in the fight. I forgot what fight happened in the UFC in the past like year or two that I needed to use that as reference for but, point is, the ref makes the call between the distinction between in round and out of round actions.
- Yan made it to the bell.
- Yan's consciousness slipped after the round was over.
- Yan was conscious and willing to continue by the start of the round.
We can judge how much she should have been evaluated for her own health given her state of consciousness, but if a fighter makes it to the final bell, then due to the adrenaline dump, just collapses, we wouldn't be calling for the other person to win via TKO.
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She WAS NOT out ... she was almost out.
When Weilie let go, the woman got up under her own power.
/End thread
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The rules are a little vague but essentially, you can’t win by submission after the bell.
If the fighter goes out or taps out after the bell, it’s either the ref or fighter’s decision if they want to continue. If Yan got up and fell back to the ground, the ref would call it a TKO.
Or, the fighter could say they couldn’t continue, or they corner could do the same if they don’t think she is all there. No protocols were broken.
Yan was a little wobbly but rules wise, it’s no different from being rocked at the end. As long as she got up, going out from the sub doesn’t matter.
If the fighter goes out or taps out after the bell, it’s either the ref or fighter’s decision if they want to continue. If Yan got up and fell back to the ground, the ref would call it a TKO.
Or, the fighter could say they couldn’t continue, or they corner could do the same if they don’t think she is all there. No protocols were broken.
Yan was a little wobbly but rules wise, it’s no different from being rocked at the end. As long as she got up, going out from the sub doesn’t matter.
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The rules are a little vague but essentially, you can’t win by submission after the bell.
If the fighter goes out or taps out after the bell, it’s either the ref or fighter’s decision if they want to continue. If Yan got up and fell back to the ground, the ref would call it a TKO.
Or, the fighter could say they couldn’t continue, or their corner could do the same if they don’t think she is all there. No protocols were broken.
Yan was a little wobbly but rules wise, it’s no different from being rocked at the end. As long as she got up, going out from the sub doesn’t matter.
If the fighter goes out or taps out after the bell, it’s either the ref or fighter’s decision if they want to continue. If Yan got up and fell back to the ground, the ref would call it a TKO.
Or, the fighter could say they couldn’t continue, or their corner could do the same if they don’t think she is all there. No protocols were broken.
Yan was a little wobbly but rules wise, it’s no different from being rocked at the end. As long as she got up, going out from the sub doesn’t matter.
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Hard call but I'm glad it continued. Yan looked pretty sad when she thought she lost (that's how I read her reaction) but then she gained new fighting spirit when she realized the fight isn't lost.
She went the distance so it was much better experience for her and she has nothing to be ashamed of now at least.
Herzog seems to be a guy that will give you every little bit of chance to continue. I prefer that type of reffing over stop it way too early (or way too late) most of the time like gold standard Herb or Goddard, or Dan who goofs up a lot.
She went the distance so it was much better experience for her and she has nothing to be ashamed of now at least.
Herzog seems to be a guy that will give you every little bit of chance to continue. I prefer that type of reffing over stop it way too early (or way too late) most of the time like gold standard Herb or Goddard, or Dan who goofs up a lot.
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I mean it would've saved us from another WMMA decision. The whole fight was pretty odd. I don't remember a fighter going out from a choke right at the bell before. I think it's a gray situation where the ref makes the final say and it's not as black and white as people think. Atleast moments like this aren't frequent.
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Like both fighters, but yeah, messed up.
Would love to hear your, a judo guy, breakdown of the Harrison/Holm fight. I needed to rewatch it, but it seems like good showing of underutilized tools that Judo has that is missing in MMA.
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Where to begin...
This is going to be a long post, sorry in advancd
I guess first of all, being able to control the clinch game is HUGE. Like a vastly underutilized aspect beyond the usual.
I don't think anyone has focused so much on it since honestly, Randy Couture. We saw its effects all the way back when he dominated Vitor forever ago.
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One very big mistake High level Judoka make in MMA is how they finish throws. It's an incredibly big habit that is detrimental in MMA (and BJJ/sub grappling)
They full commit to the followthrough, thus they end up getting reversed. Hip throws are usually the biggest culprit.
It took me, without exaggeration, years to adjust my throws. (I'm trying to think of the best way to explain it verbLly)
Basically you have to really, stop your own momentum the moment they're definitely getting thrown and try to redirect your weight straight down.
(Say you have a right underhook and are doing an O Goshi for example. You need to get your right rib/core area to land on the RIGHT side of their centre line. And try to remove circular momentum and drive straight down.)
As for the fight specifically.
Sure Holly is old, but she actually has a decent base in grappling, she rarely gets mollywhopped.
Kayla is just drastically more skilled, and holly did not enjoy. Size strength advantage, which she usually does.
I feel Kayla has the right ego and mentality to really LEARN MMA and understand her weaknesses unlike her contemporary Ronda
(I still belive Ronda could've done so, so much more in the sport if she simply didn't have massive insecurities, like thinking she needs to impress people with her boxing... which was always bad, just bad. And surrounding herself with yes men and a coach thats abysmal)
My biggest critique of Kayla prior to this fight was that she'd kind of coast and lacked really any urgency.
She should NOT have been winning by decision against the level of competitors she has been fighting.
Luckily, she really laid on the aggression and fought very confidently.
Call me biased but she has every quality to be a long reigning champion if she just continues down the same path.
Insane grappling skill.
Insane Physical advantages relative to her division.
The right mindset to continuously improve.
I do need to re-watch it later and see what I haven't discussed.
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Your rewatch could be your first video analysis. hint, hint.
You are correct with the control and comparing it to Randy and Vitor I, which was a clinic, and one I never really thought about from that perspective.
The reversal/full commitment analysis is interesting and I think it might have happened in this fight. I think Holm's reversal in the first td was largely do to the overcommitment by Harrison and Holm being equipped enough to exploit it on the ground (I would guess that was game planned, whatever one may think of Holly's team, they scout perfectly).
Judo and Sambo practitioners, at least in my experience, can pinpoint throws and with some slight modifications, could be gamechangers in MMA.
Thanks for your analysis. It is always appreciated.
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Thank you sir chief of sherbro island
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Anytime sir.
