Do you ever carry through signs?

[HockeyBjj]

Mod, feel free to delete this if against the rules as I am indeed asking for discussion around when people willfully break laws.

Do any of you conceal carriers ever carry through a properly marked "no guns" sign/symbol outside a business and enter anyway? Do you always do it? Never? Certain situations with precautions? I'd prefer a bit of real discussion here, not just a witty "better to be judged by 7 than carried by 6" type of cheap witty remark.

I try to avoid it when possible. If it's a restaurant or grocery store similar that has a sign, I have a little locking safe under my driver's seat I'll walk back out and store my firearm in. There are higher risk times/areas I'll choose to still go. Recent example was the movie theater this past weekend with my wife. The mall has signs, but I've discoverer the Barnes and Noble is in fact not signed and has access to the mall on the inside, so I think I may be able to win a lawful argument there in Illinois so long as I always go in and out B&N. So that's what I do the few times I go to the mall (which has had 2 shootings in the last 3 years)

The times I do go somewhere like the movie theater or mall, where chances of a dangerous public encounter are higher imo and I want to have my gun on me in my 5 o'clock iwb holster, I'll always make sure to have two layers on, typically a flannel, so that I'm not just trusting a t shirt to keep complete concealment and not print when ramifications of doing so could involve being charged with a crime and losing my ccw liscense, not just an awkward encounter.

What do you all do with signed buildings?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Is a business posting a sign the same as breaking a law? I was under the impression all they can do is ask you to leave and if you don't the charge would be something like trespassing.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Is a business posting a sign the same as breaking a law? I was under the impression all they can do is ask you to leave and if you don't the charge would be something like trespassing.

My understanding from Illinois conceal carry class and reading the WI conceal carry laws is that a sign (certain visibility requirements and posted at every entry) essentially counts as the initial asking a gun carryier to leave. And walking past it armed counts as the trespassing at that point. It's called out as a class b misdemeanor in Illinois with a 6 month suspension of ccw liscense. A 2nd offense is class A misdemeanor and revocation of ccw.

Edit: found a post that align with my memory.

What are the penalties for carrying a loaded, concealed handgun in a restricted place?

It depends. A licensee who carries in a restricted place is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation is a Class A misdemeanor. The State Police may suspend a license for up to 6 months for a second violation and must permanently revoke a license for 3 or more violations. In addition, a license holder convicted of carrying in a restricted place must pay a $150 fee to be deposited into the Mental Health Reporting Fund, plus any applicable court costs or fees.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

My understanding from Illinois conceal carry class and reading the WI conceal carry laws is that a sign (certain visibility requirements and posted at every entry) essentially counts as the initial asking a gun carryier to leave. And walking past it armed counts as a class b misdemeanor in Illinois with a 6 month suspension of ccw liscense. A 2nd offense is class A misdemeanor and revocation of ccw.


What are the penalties for carrying a loaded, concealed handgun in a restricted place?

It depends. A licensee who carries in a restricted place is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation is a Class A misdemeanor. The State Police may suspend a license for up to 6 months for a second violation and must permanently revoke a license for 3 or more violations. In addition, a license holder convicted of carrying in a restricted place must pay a $150 fee to be deposited into the Mental Health Reporting Fund, plus any applicable court costs or fees.

Sounds like you know more about it than I do. A quick search produced this article.

https://concealednation.org/2015/12...-encountering-a-gun-free-zone-while-carrying/

Private Property “Gun Free Zones”
Businesses, in some states, do not have a right to designate their business “gun free” to concealed carriers unless they post specific signage in prominent areas of the business. Texas is a great example of this with their 30.06 signage. Now, not all states are required to do this but in general they can and will post some indicator that they have a weapons policy in place.

If a business sees you are carrying a concealed firearm and they ask you to leave, you are generally obligated to do so. And if you are spotted, it’s generally a good idea. If you leave immediately and don’t cause a scene, that will likely be the end of it.

Private landowners may put up signage requesting visitors to not carry concealed or openly. That’s their right and it’s protected by the state. Violating this, in most cases, will result in a misdemeanor offense if you do not immediately remove yourself from the premises. Civil charges are possible depending upon how easily offended the landowner. But, think about it in terms of your home. If you requested that visitors do not bring firearms with them, wouldn’t you be (to say the least) mildly offended if they refused?

• Minimum damages: Charged with misdemeanor trespassing, occasionally a felony depending upon state/county/municipal jurisdiction. Fees and fines are possible. Civil charges are possible.
• Maximum damages: Suspension/revokation/loss of CCW permit, civil forfeiture of firearms, civil charges, minor criminal charges (misdemeanor, usually).

So, now at least you can see the spectrum you’re up against. For states that are extremely gun-adverse (New York, Maryland, D.C., Hawaii, New Jersey, California), there’s definitely the opportunity for more complications. In general, how you handle yourself when you’re spotted will dictate the rest, if you choose to disregard the gun-free sign.

Be respectful.

Be polite.

Those two pieces, right there, will certainly play a factor in everything else. So, can we advise you on how best to break the law? Absolutely not. That said, now you know the potential ramifications, decide for yourself what’s best for you. In our opinion; stick to the law and do your part to get those laws changed in the cc’ers favor.

 

[Gregolian]

My town just had a dude that was a conceal carrier stop someone that was threatening to blow up the theater with a backpack bomb because he carried even with the "no guns" sign.

 

[HockeyBjj]

My town just had a dude that was a conceal carrier stop someone that was threatening to blow up the theater with a backpack bomb because he carried even with the "no guns" sign.

Could I ask what you personally do?

Yeah, movie theaters are one of the relatively few places I'll knowingly carry through every time due to their higher than average risk of being a target.

Also, anyone know someone who was caught carrying (and not breaking any other law) in a no gun sign restricted area and what happened?

 

[Stoic1]

IDGAF.

They would have to put hands on to see if I was carrying. And that doesn't happen.

 

[Gregolian]

Could I ask what you personally do?

Yeah, movie theaters are one of the relatively few places I'll knowingly carry through every time due to their higher than average risk of being a target.

Also, anyone know someone who was caught carrying (and not breaking any other law) in a no gun sign restricted area and what happened?

Right now, I'm a Superior Court Clerk. Meaning I handle paperwork and and take notes during court hearings.

Starting June 3 I will be in Salt Lake City working for the County District Attorney office as a paralegal.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Right now, I'm a Superior Court Clerk. Meaning I handle paperwork and and take notes during court hearings.

Starting June 3 I will be in Salt Lake City working for the County District Attorney office as a paralegal.

Lol. Wasn't talking job although I'm very happy you got a new one with all your ups and downs in the war room lounge. Was asking what you do carry wise when you're armed and the place you planned on going has a no guns allowed sign on the door.

@Stoic1 how do you carry? I definitely feel a person could on occasion see an outline through a t-shirt of they knew what they were looking for on me at times.

 

[Gregolian]

Lol. Wasn't talking job although I'm very happy you got a new one with all your ups and downs in the war room lounge. Was asking what you do carry wise when you're armed and the place you planned on going has a no guns allowed sign on the door.

@Stoic1 how do you carry? I definitely feel a person could on occasion see an outline through a t-shirt of they knew what they were looking for on me at times.

Oh me? It honestly depends. Places like coffee shops and shit they can suck my ass. I'm going to a movie theater to sit on my ass for 3 hours I probably wouldn't carry based simply on not wanting to have a brick inside my sweatshirt.

 

[Stoic1]

Lol. Wasn't talking job although I'm very happy you got a new one with all your ups and downs in the war room lounge. Was asking what you do carry wise when you're armed and the place you planned on going has a no guns allowed sign on the door.

@Stoic1 how do you carry? I definitely feel a person could on occasion see an outline through a t-shirt of they knew what they were looking for on me at times.

Appendix. 1o'clock with a P938 single stack.

 

[Protectandserve]

If its concealed, you should not have an issue.

I ignore all the fucking signs, unless the place has metal detectors.

Anyone with a CCW should. My pops does all the time.

 

[HockeyBjj]

If its concealed, you should not have an issue.

I ignore all the fucking signs, unless the place has metal detectors.

Anyone with a CCW should. My pops does all the time.

Mind if I ask you what you as a cop would do if called to a place like a Starbucks or a Buffalo Wild Wings where someone called seeing a bulge under the shirt or something and the legal ccwer otherwise not breaking any laws aside from carrying in a restricted area?

 

[Protectandserve]

Mind if I ask you what you as a cop would do if called to a place like a Starbucks or a Buffalo Wild Wings where someone called seeing a bulge under the shirt or something and the legal ccwer otherwise not breaking any laws aside from carrying in a restricted area?

We'd have a chat. Discuss proper cover garments and not printing.

Basically all they can do is ask you to leave the establishment.

Would I cite for anything like trespassing or the like if it applied. Absolutely not.

CCW holders get a pass on traffic tickets as well from me.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

CCW holders get a pass on traffic tickets as well from me.

Sounds like my kind of corruption police discretion.

 

[Grrrr]

that sign means nothing to me.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

My town just had a dude that was a conceal carrier stop someone that was threatening to blow up the theater with a backpack bomb because he carried even with the "no guns" sign.

do you have a link to a news article or something on that story? did the guy with the bomb stand up in the theater and announce he had one? it just sounds like an intriguing story
thanks,

 

[Gregolian]

do you have a link to a news article or something on that story? did the guy with the bomb stand up in the theater and announce he had one? it just sounds like an intriguing story
thanks,

It was outside the theater but let me find an article:
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article229789599.html
^^^^^Initial article

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article229812109.html
^^^^^^^Follow up after his first appearance in court

 

[HockeyBjj]

It was outside the theater but let me find an article:
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article229789599.html
^^^^^Initial article

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article229812109.html
^^^^^^^Follow up after his first appearance in court

So, didn't really stop the guy? More followed crazy dude with a backpack when he went outside and apprehended him until police arrived?

Damn that's a nutty story. Fake bomber definitely has some schitzo stuff going on with the religious aspect. CCer I think would have been legally justified to shoot on the announcement of bomb threat that sent everyone running from theater, but that would be a very stressful and not fun few months for good guy wondering if manslaughter charges would be pressed and if he'd have to defend his freedom in a trial.

 

[Gregolian]

So, didn't really stop the guy? More followed crazy dude with a backpack when he went outside and apprehended him until police arrived?

Damn that's a nutty story. Fake bomber definitely has some schitzo stuff going on with the religious aspect. CCer I think would have been legally justified to shoot on the announcement of bomb threat that sent everyone running from theater, but that would be a very stressful and not fun few months for good guy wondering if manslaughter charges would be pressed and if he'd have to defend his freedom in a trial.

I think the CC guy did a damn good job, especially once he pulled the guy went belly on pavement.