Does anyone else find the disregard for Pereira as a competent grappler irritating?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Just to throw this bit here as well: people say Jiri is a striker, Jan is a striker. Well, Ankalaev is also a striker. I don’t remember him ever winning by sub. Not saying he is bad at it, but if Alex defeats him, I fully expect the narrative to change into “no good grapplers in the division”.

I mean there really aren't any good grapplers in the division, the UFC decided to let Bader, Davis and Anderson all go in free agency. DC retired, Glover retired, Jones went to HW and Rumble left the UFC then tragically passed away. Ankalaev is more of a striker than he is a grappler but his wrestling is better than anyone else's in the top 10 by a large margin. The next best wrestler is probably Cutelaba who's like a top 15-20 guy.

Grappling at LHW has probably never been worse than it is right now.

 

[Nobru]

I get your point, but to me, it aint irritating. Its just how things are.
You appreciate something, or someone, you highlight their qualities. Haters like to point out flaws/problems.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I actually feel it's a somewhat refreshing dialog -- it's the elephant in the room and people know it. It really is something that deserves to be addressed in conversation, respectfully of course. Besides, the context from which I've seen it mentioned mostly is somewhat complimentary as if it's impressive that someone with such a big hole can achieve as much success as he has. Maybe the gap has been closed a lot, but seeing how he looked against Jiri really said to me that there are ways to beat him, with is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I actually feel it's a somewhat refreshing dialog -- it's the elephant in the room and people know it. It really is something that deserves to be addressed in conversation, respectfully of course. Besides, the context from which I've seen it mentioned mostly is somewhat complimentary as if it's impressive that someone with such a big hole can achieve as much success as he has. Maybe the gap has been closed a lot, but seeing how he looked against Jiri really said to me that there are ways to beat him, with is nothing to be ashamed of.

He is benifiting from the MW and LHW divisions having very little grapplers. The UFC let a lot go in free agency like Bader, Davis, Anderson and Rumble who was more of a striker that had fairly good wrestling. Then DC and Glover retired and Jones moved to HW. The best grapplers at MW aged out and the UFC hasnt signed many new ones, Jacare, Kennedy Rochold and Weidman don't have younger equivalents.

The UFC isn’t signing the best of the best as much regardless of style they are focusing more on strikers.

 

[Fedora Millionankles]

He's been working with Glover for years. He doesn't need to work on his striking as an already world class striker. He will likely have brought plenty of top grapplers in to work with, as well as being overseen by Glover. So many mma commentators are speaking as if we just disregard him as a grappler, especially a defensive one. They say things like "if he gets taken down, he'll get chocked out easy" etc.

I don't understand how people can disregard an elite guy like this. Just because we haven't seen his grappling doesn't mean he'll easily get taken down and choked out by Jones or Aspinall, or even Ankalaev as soon as they get their hands on him. I don't know, it's just something that has been bothering me with mma "experts" currently.

He was taken down and controlled by Izzy; yea, his grappling is not something to be respected yet until he proves otherwise.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

He is benifiting from the MW and LHW divisions having very little grapplers. The UFC let a lot go in free agency like Bader, Davis, Anderson and Rumble who was more of a striker that had fairly good wrestling. Then DC and Glover retired and Jones moved to HW. The best grapplers at MW aged out and the UFC hasnt signed many new ones, Jacare, Kennedy Rochold and Weidman don't have younger equivalents.

The UFC isn’t signing the best of the best as much regardless of style they are focusing more on strikers.

I agree very much so -- add to this that in 2024, wrestling is becoming less and less of a tool to win fights. Fighters are giving up takedowns as they always have but have improved at standing up and using the cage as well as creating scrambles, not to mention that damage has become more of a factor in winning fights than being in top position. We are seeing an era of strong strikers at 205 and 185 taking over. Chimeav and Nickal definitely have their work cut out for them.

 

[El Panteron]

Alex does benefit a lot having someone like Glover on top of him

You snuck it in there

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I agree very much so -- add to this that in 2024, wrestling is becoming less and less of a tool to win fights. Fighters are giving up takedowns as they always have but have improved at standing up and using the cage as well as creating scrambles, not to mention that damage has become more of a factor in winning fights than being in top position. We are seeing an era of strong strikers at 205 and 185 taking over. Chimeav and Nickal definitely have their work cut out for them.

It's a bit of both but i think the lack of grapplers this generation of fighters has been purposeful on the UFC's part. I think there are still hugh level grapplers out there but the UFC is signing way less of them which is leading to less fights being won via grappling. The lack of them is just way more noticeable at MW and LHW. It probably also hurts that there is more money in pure wrestling and BJJ now too.

 

[NoSmilez]

you are correct, very small town area. Right in a strip mall. Awesome gym, I went there to train leg locks with Dean Lister and the fight team. Poatan was not present however. Which makes me think he doesnt care for grappling all that much.

I am under the impression Poatan splits his training in New Jersey with the other heavyset coach. I can't remember the location but it looked more inner city from the videos. I am assuming it's like Jersey City or Newark area? I don't think he is making the daily 2-3 hour drive?

Edit: Maybe you are right. I thought maybe he does some grappling with the heavyset BJJ coach. Lol that guy is holding pads for Alex in their training videos. It makes no sense.

 

[xhaydenx]

Alex did as well as Izzy against Jan but it was only 3 rounds im guessing over 5 rounds Jan wins.

All of Jan's wrestling success came early though. The longer the fight went, the more he faded and was getting hurt. I think it's more likely Alex would have finished him if there were 2 more rounds than of Jan winning.

 

[SuperNerd]

MMA forum junkies feel obligated to attack successful people. Is normal.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I like the dueling narratives of "Alex is only successful because he avoided all the wrestlers," and "Alex is lucky that there aren't any good grapplers in his division(s)."

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Likely this very reason was why He was donned a blackbelt right after JH fight at 300....to remind us what a badass he iseven if weve never seen it

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

you know what's irritating? motherfuckers who think something is good when they seen with their own eyes how shit it is lmao

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Just to throw this bit here as well: people say Jiri is a striker, Jan is a striker. Well, Ankalaev is also a striker. I don’t remember him ever winning by sub. Not saying he is bad at it, but if Alex defeats him, I fully expect the narrative to change into “no good grapplers in the division”.

i expect Pereira to beat Ankalaev because Ankalaev is dumb, not because he sucks at grappling lol. it's like i said in another post, Ankalaev has publicly said he wouldn't take Pereira down and he'd beat him striking. people said it's mind games, but is it really mind games coming from a dude like Ankalaev? he's proven he's dumb. when someone dumb says something dumb i just accept that they're going to do that dumb shit because they're dumb. but who knows, there are people who say it's 4d chess.

 

[Urluberluu]

That's why he moved from middleweight ( Du Plessis , Chimaev , Allen , Nickal )
He is more safe in light-heavy weight

 

[HHJ]

I mean its their funeral.


His defensive grappling is definitely impressive.

 

[World eater]

That's why he moved from middleweight ( Du Plessis , Chimaev , Allen , Nickal )
He is more safe in light-heavy weight

Sure, That’s why. It is actually mind boggling how much weight he can cut. Whittaker couldn’t believe the size of the guy when he first met him.

 

[king hippo]

big fan of the guy, but he looked lost in some of the grappling exchanges in his fights.

i feel his game is incomplete and attribute his rise to the top because of luck and not facing the right fighters that would test his grappling. in this day and age it's a miracle he got one belt let alone two because normally the one-dimensional fighters don't make it very far.

i hope i'm wrong and he's worked very hard on his grappling.

 

[OleBuffalo]

Why is Aspinall a bigger grappling threat than Jan? Jan has twice as many subs. Aspinall has only subbed a can back in the day, AA who isn't that great a grappler and just gave up his neck, and Volkov who is competent. Jan on the other hand did sub Nikita who has as many or maybe more than anyone in the division.

Aspinall is the one we need to see more of in regards to grappling. He hasn't fought any good grapplers. Blaydes fight didn't really count, and Sergey was a scared bum and isn't that great anyway.

Iirc Aspinall’s dad is a bjj instructor and got Tom started as a child. He was a lifelong grappler doing bjj comps before getting into mma and it shows when you watch him on the mat. But him and Poatan are similar in that they keep koing dudes, so we don’t get to see much of their grappling lol