Does the "Today's worst NBA team beats 90s Bulls" Theory work in MMA ?

[Guld]

I think the rules have changed MMA, quite a bit. It’s taken some of the effectiveness of grapplers away. Especially if they aren’t going to enforce fence grabs. Real credit to Khabib to be so dominant, despite that. He really molded his style so that he didn’t just blanket, he was always trying to improve position.

True.
The UFC in particular has really pushed for a striking friendly roster for quite some time. Primarily for entertainment purposes, and I can't really fault them for that. Lay and Pray/Wall and Stall were brutal to watch back in the day.
It's one of the reasons that proper grapplers/wrestlers like Khabib can seem unstoppable/so dominant now though.
The average TDD/Defensive grappling of Khabib's opponents was laughable (Gleison obviously being an exception).
With that being said, I do think that the "meta" is shifting again (again, depending on the weight category).
There seems to be a bit of a resurgence of wreslters/grapplers again, and their striking is still top tier.

 

[blaseblase]

Yeah, no I get you. And I think, especially Lebron would’ve done well in any era. I know he’s a flopper but that’s the game these guys play now. He can play physical. Fucking Harden is the worst. Can’t wait to see that shit retire. Good riddance.

It would be way easier for today's players to play more physical than it would be for 90s players to adapt to the 3 pt game.

 

[Frank Kain]

Damn right they could.

Im not disputing what you’re saying entirely but the NBA, just like MMA, has changed the rules over the years. A big reason MJ was so dominant in the 90s was a call, you never see anymore…‘Illegal defense.’ Basically, it was called on teams that played zone defense, and forced one on one play. That’s part of the reason why Phil Jackson’s triangle was effective. It turned the Bull’s point guard in to a spot up shooter, and allowed Pippen and Jordan to dominate. Now a days, zone defense is more acceptable, 2002 onwards. And they combat that with more college style play, emphasis on 3 point bombs and more screens to free shooters. Don’t take my word for it….

 

[EnthusiastCultivator]

That’s just not true. Firstly, Anderson was coming into the org as the Cage Rage MW champ, and had fought in PRIDE previously. Think of Jiri coming in as the RIZIN champ. How many fights did he fight to get a TS, like 2? Michael Chandler was a mult-time Bellator champion and only had to get one win to get a UFC TS. Poatan only fought 3 fights for no real reason other than there was a backstory between him and Izzy.

I mentioned there are exceptions to the rule. It is true that it generally takes more wins to get to a title shot for the new guys as opposed to the old guard. BJ Penn got his UFC shot in his 4th fight, GSP in his 8th pro fight, Randy Couture at his 4th. I can keep going if you want.

 

[Nathan LaMontagne]

Yes because guys like Tai Tuivasa, Derrick Lewis and Gane (i do like all three)have the ground game of Fedor or Nog circa 20+ years ago.

The only thing the top tier old guard lacked is size, their skill was miles ahead.

 

[Frank Kain]

It would be way easier for today's players to play more physical than it would be for 90s players to adapt to the 3 pt game.

And that’s my point too. The rules and athletes are different. Again, I grew up in the Bird, Johnson, Jordan era, and they could compete at any time, but they wouldn’t just dominate. Just like Matt Hughes wouldn’t just dominate WW, anymore. His style is competitive in any era, but dominate, no. Because they would stand him up more now.

 

[StonedLemur]

Im not disputing what you’re saying entirely but the NBA, just like MMA, has changed the rules over the years. A big reason MJ was so dominant in the 90s was a call, you never see anymore…‘Illegal defense.’ Basically, it was called on teams that played zone defense, and forced one on one play. That’s part of the reason why Phil Jackson’s triangle was effective. It turned the Bull’s point guard in to a spot up shooter, and allowed Pippen and Jordan to dominate. Now a days, zone defense is more acceptable, 2002 onwards. And they combat that with more college style play, emphasis on 3 point bombs and more screens to free shooters. Don’t take my word for it….

View attachment 1006849

Look up what the Detroit Pistons used to do to him... you'd be ejected from the game for that shit today.

Also, the interior defense sucks ass today, Jordan, Pippen, Grant, would style on these cats.

 

[Elvis.]

Sports are a product, a product they are trying to sell us , of course they are going to say the product is the best it’s ever been and if you don’t partake you’re missing out

 

[gspieler]

MJ and his bulls crush any of Lebitches handpicked teams he won titles with

Rodman would make Lebron retire from basketball

Allowing Rod to guard Lebron would be unethical. It’s obvious that Lebron is far too soft(mentally) to handle something like that. It would be knowingly giving a great athlete PTSD. Best stick to trading mostly uncontested shots with guys like Durant, Harden, and Westbrook.

 

[chinarice]

Allowing Rod to guard Lebron would be unethical. It’s obvious that Lebron is far too soft(mentally) to handle something like that. Best stick to trading mostly uncontested shots with guys like Durant, Harden, and Westbrook.

Yeah the soft era would get obliterated if they had to play the way the game was played during Jordan's prime.

Lebron would probably be out for full seasons after a night against some of these teams from that era with how much of a baby he is over the smallest amount of contact.

 

[DarthChen731]

When it comes to HW specifically, no.

Other divisions, maybe not #15 but most of the top 10 nowadays could beat the majority of top 10s from 2008 yeah.

 

[CashMoney1991]

Has basketball training tactics evolved that much or became more popular since the 90s. I am not knowledgeable of basketball, but that sounds off to me since its an old sport. For MMA, I do believe the best fighters are still to be seen. The fighting game is still improving and more importantly, it became much more mainstream, which mean that there are probably a lot more kids our day training MMA and phenoms are on their way. That said, current roaster are not that much better IMO than the one just before. The latest great jump in talent was post Matt Hughes era. Since it has been relatively stable.

That's a good point, I like to call Hughes vs GSP 2 the changing of the guard fight, Hughes was only good on the ground, but had shit standup, GSP had just about every single thing in MMA

 

[Frank Kain]

Look up what the Detroit Pistons used to do to him... you'd be ejected from the game for that shit today.

Also, the interior defense sucks ass today, Jordan, Pippen, Grant, would style on these cats.

nah, it would be very competitive. Pippen and Jordan were the physical elite in their time, but that Warriors team with Durant could’ve beat them. So much fire on the perimeter that matched up well with the Bulls perimeter players. Would be my favorite ‘fantasy match up’. Maybe the 2011-12 Heat too. Imagine Wade/Lebron vs Jordan/Pippen. Amazing.

 

[gspieler]

Yeah the soft era would get obliterated if they had to play the way the game was played during Jordan's prime.

Lebron would probably be out for full seasons after a night against some of these teams from that era with how much of a baby he is over the smallest amount of contact.

Reggie deserves more respect, IMO. He was a lanky SG who psyched out much physically stronger men. Imagine Lebron with a Reggie Miller mindset, and ability to perform under pressure. He would be unstoppable.

 

[CashMoney1991]

I think it is always interesting to compare eras, athletes in general have gotten so much better due to roids, nutrition and training advances, that being said; in this sport, I think it depends on the eras that are being compared, like fighters in the 90s sucked fat dick compared to today's cats, Royce wouldn't even be top 15 in his weight class since all he had was BJJ, but guys like Fedor who dominated the 2000's would be the HW champ in the 2010's, some weight classes have evolved more than others such as the lighter weights, with 205 and HW being the worst divisions right now

 

[StonedLemur]

nah, it would be very competitive. Pippen and Jordan were the physical elite in their time, but that Warriors team with Durant could’ve beat them. So much fire on the perimeter that matched up well with the Bulls perimeter players. Would be my favorite ‘fantasy match up’. Maybe the 2011-12 Heat too. Imagine Wade/Lebron vs Jordan/Pippen. Amazing.

Here's the thing, even if the warriors won one year... Jordan would work his team to beat them the next.
Pippen and Rodman were/are the best on ball defenders the NBA has ever seen.

There's literally nobody in the league today that can do what they did.

 

[CasualBot]

Never more appropriate

 

[jitzmonkey]

I mentioned there are exceptions to the rule. It is true that it generally takes more wins to get to a title shot for the new guys as opposed to the old guard. BJ Penn got his UFC shot in his 4th fight, GSP in his 8th pro fight, Randy Couture at his 4th. I can keep going if you want.

Fair point; but we need to look at the context.

There was a much lower concentration of top tier talent (especially in the UFC) than there is now.
BJ's grappling career was given similar emphasis that a modern fighters success on the regional scene would garner.
Randy's wrestling career was treated similarly; add that he won a 4 man tournament (those were fun) back in the day, etc...
Many of Matt Hughes title defenses came against guys in their 1st or 2nd UFC fights.

Side note: GSP's title shot was too soon, IMO (thought it at the time; and definitely after the result.)

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

I don't follow basketball, but I always laugh at the nostalgia in hockey fans. The best teams from 80s would absolutely lose against junior teams today.

 

[Frank Kain]

Here's the thing, even if the warriors won one year... Jordan would work his team to beat them the next.
Pippen and Rodman were/are the best on ball defenders the NBA has ever seen.

There's literally nobody in the league today that can do what they did.

i disagree. Durant, Lebron, and Giannis are all capable of playing that style, but the rules have changed, so they don’t have to buckle down every possession. It’s similar to late 70s to mid 80s, with more emphasis on running the floor, rather than the slower, half-court game. Their size too, would neutralize a lot of the advantages that 6-8 220 # guys like Pippen and Rodman had at the time. Rodman and Pippen are 2 of my favorite players, but they were the top tier in size and speed at the time. They would not be top-tier today in physicality. They would fit right in, not dominate.