Social Eating Farm Raised Bugs vs. Hunting Meat and Fishing

[Lemmy Caution]

No attack on hunting, but Sweden enacted free hunting in 1789. It almost wiped out the entire animal population. They had to ban virtually all hunting for a decade. Hunting was back in 1808, heavily regulated.

With today's much greater population and better hunting equipment, unregulated hunting would wipe out all wildlife worldwide in a hurry.

This, in my opinion, is at least as big a problem as climate change. West Africa is almost devoid of wildlife. They have all been eaten.

Also, I'm not into eating bugs. But it has been staple food for like 99% of human history. They are still eaten in many places. It's primarily Europeans who are picky eaters.

Scorpions sold as snacks:

And the always popular bird on a stick.

Inuits consider raw seal eyeballs especially tasty. They are typically given to children as snacks.

Bugs do not necessarily need to be an issue. Meat is already disconnected from the source in modern society. If bugs come in the same shape as ground biff, why would anyone care?

If you eat this, why wouldn't you eat an insect or arachnid?

Or this:

It's obvious that these things are learned. Fat is an essential. We need quite a bit of it. 100-150 grams (900-1350 calories) or more a day depending on individual. In perhaps less than 5 decades, Westerners have gone from loving grease and fat to being disgusted by it. When I grew up, you would let bacon fats harden and spread it on sandwiches. I believe lots of people throw away this delicacy now.
https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/rendering_bacon_fat/

Still don't look forward to bugs. Or snails for that matter. But I also realize that my feelings about those things are learned.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Lab grown meat is coming. It will be cheaper, easier to produce, less resource and labor intensive.

No its not and no, it won't be cheaper nor will it use fewer resources. Quite the opposite really.

 

[Beechwood]

Saw this article yesterday. Looks like the woke in Australia and the UK have begun to feed bugs to school kids. It wouldn't surprise me if Biden and the Democrats want to see similar for American school kids.

Schools are now feeding BUGS to children

https://petersweden.substack.com/p/insects-schools

 

[Lemmy Caution]

No its not and no, it won't be cheaper nor will it use fewer resources. Quite the opposite really.

Correct. It has to be grown in laboratory condition because lab grown meat has no immune system. It's possible that it will be solved in the future, but is nothing I know anything about.

 

[Lemmy Caution]

Saw this article yesterday. Looks like the woke in Australia and the UK have begun to feed bugs to school kids. It wouldn't surprise me if Biden and the Democrats want to see similar for American school kids.

Schools are now feeding BUGS to children

https://petersweden.substack.com/p/insects-schools

WTF does that have to do with "woke"? Bear Grylls is "woke"? Indigenous people in the Amazon are "woke"?

But I guess you are right. You need to be woke to be aware of things. What are we, 7-8 billion people. Never has there been such hug demand on food on the planet. The sea are getting depleted. I know, some sources say they aren't. But those are the same people who insist that a piece of cardboard is equal to a slab of meat as long as the calorie count is the same, because a calorie is a calorie. Thus it doesn't matter if your net is filled with slime or mackerel, because a catch is a catch.

 

[Pride23]

No its not and no, it won't be cheaper nor will it use fewer resources. Quite the opposite really.

Yes it is, and yes. It will be cheaper and use fewer resources.

If you take 30 seconds to think logically, you are trying to tell me that having acres of farm land to tend, animals to feed and manage, water needed for both, would be cheaper than culturing cells in a lab.

You are wrong, but something tells me it doesn't matter what I write here, it won't convince you. You will just see when it happens and if you have any memory of this conversation you will realize you were once wrong.

 

[mozfonky]

Where is all the bug eating nonsense coming from?

that's for you to find out, the rest of us, we all know.

 

[crystallake]

No attack on hunting, but Sweden enacted free hunting in 1789. It almost wiped out the entire animal population. They had to ban virtually all hunting for a decade. Hunting was back in 1808, heavily regulated.

With today's much greater population and better hunting equipment, unregulated hunting would wipe out all wildlife worldwide in a hurry.

This, in my opinion, is at least as big a problem as climate change. West Africa is almost devoid of wildlife. They have all been eaten.

Also, I'm not into eating bugs. But it has been staple food for like 99% of human history. They are still eaten in many places. It's primarily Europeans who are picky eaters.

Scorpions sold as snacks:

And the always popular bird on a stick.

Inuits consider raw seal eyeballs especially tasty. They are typically given to children as snacks.

Bugs do not necessarily need to be an issue. Meat is already disconnected from the source in modern society. If bugs come in the same shape as ground biff, why would anyone care?

If you eat this, why wouldn't you eat an insect or arachnid?

Or this:

It's obvious that these things are learned. Fat is an essential. We need quite a bit of it. 100-150 grams (900-1350 calories) or more a day depending on individual. In perhaps less than 5 decades, Westerners have gone from loving grease and fat to being disgusted by it. When I grew up, you would let bacon fats harden and spread it on sandwiches. I believe lots of people throw away this delicacy now.
https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/rendering_bacon_fat/

Still don't look forward to bugs. Or snails for that matter. But I also realize that my feelings about those things are learned.

In Bavaria this is still popular and classic dish (turning pig fat into bread spread). It's called griebenschmalz and it tastes really good but I'd not advise eating a lot of it if you are drunk even though in that moment you may think it's the perfect food for drinking. Waking up with a belly filled of beer and pig fat usually doesn't go well. Anyway, in my experience you can turn pretty much every part of an animal in something tasty. Cow tongue and lungs are popular here too. (more among the older folks I guess) I agree with you in that it's very strange how most people nowadays find a lot of animals parts disgusting.

 

[evergreenrider]

Well, farmed raised seafood is terrible for you, I imagine bugs won't be much different. Farm raised anything isn't the best option. But hey, fuck it.

 

[rikibobby]

Yes it is, and yes. It will be cheaper and use fewer resources.

If you take 30 seconds to think logically, you are trying to tell me that having acres of farm land to tend, animals to feed and manage, water needed for both, would be cheaper than culturing cells in a lab.

You are wrong, but something tells me it doesn't matter what I write here, it won't convince you. You will just see when it happens and if you have any memory of this conversation you will realize you were once wrong.

Lol. Nature does the work bud. You own tons of land. Grass grows. Animals eat grass. Animals move around to where there is always grass. Very little maintenance to pastures other than fencr maintenance.

 

[Rod1]

Worst case scenario you can turn to plant based protein. Soy protein is cheap and it's free from the bad stuff from the soybean. You could eat protein from other plants too.
Plants will always be more effective than animals, including bugs, because these will have to eat plants and some energy and proteins will be lost along the way.
Processed plants are much cleaner too, they just cannot have virus, bacteria or stuff like prions.
I love meat and I wouldn't be a vegan for any ethical reasons but I could live without it if I needed.

Exactly, this talk about bugs being forced is just stupid, you can make pretty good "meat" with soy.

 

[Pride23]

Lol. Nature does the work bud. You own tons of land. Grass grows. Animals eat grass. Animals move around to where there is always grass. Very little maintenance to pastures other than fencr maintenance.

Bud, you don't have the slightest idea. You thinking raising cattle on a farm is easy and doesn't require alot of resources and time lol.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I think you're both wrong.

Lol. Nature does the work bud. You own tons of land. Grass grows. Animals eat grass. Animals move around to where there is always grass. Very little maintenance to pastures other than fencr maintenance.

If you want to have more intensive agriculture you will need to care for your pasture as a crop. Fertilizer, pesticides and cultivation with mowers. Depending on the region you also have to deal with frost or fires. Moreover the land itself is pretty expensive depending on the area. So it isn't that simple but it should be cheaper.

Yes it is, and yes. It will be cheaper and use fewer resources.

If you take 30 seconds to think logically, you are trying to tell me that having acres of farm land to tend, animals to feed and manage, water needed for both, would be cheaper than culturing cells in a lab.

You are wrong, but something tells me it doesn't matter what I write here, it won't convince you. You will just see when it happens and if you have any memory of this conversation you will realize you were once wrong.

When you get to the basics you need energy and building blocks of matter to get the meat. When you're doing it in a lab(more like an industry) you need to get it from somewhere. In a farm the energy and protein comes from plants that in turn got it from the sun. You will need to get that energy from somewhere in the lab, you will also have to get amino acids from somewhere. I find it unlikely you will find a cheaper energy source than the sun.
The reactors would also be pretty expensive and would need constant maintenance.

 

[Pride23]

I think you're both wrong.

If you want to have more intensive agriculture you will need to care for your pasture as a crop. Fertilizer, pesticides and cultivation with mowers. Depending on the region you also have to deal with frost or fires. Moreover the land itself is pretty expensive depending on the area. So it isn't that simple but it should be cheaper.


When you get to the basics you need energy and building blocks of matter to get the meat. When you're doing it in a lab(more like an industry) you need to get it from somewhere. In a farm the energy and protein comes from plants that in turn got it from the sun. You will need to get that energy from somewhere in the lab, you will also have to get amino acids from somewhere. I find it unlikely you will find a cheaper energy source than the sun.
The reactors would also be pretty expensive and would need constant maintenance.

We can agree to disagree. I think most of these posts wont age well when you see that it's like 5 times cheaper. People just have a hard time grasping exponential changes.

 

[rikibobby]

Bud, you don't have the slightest idea. You thinking raising cattle on a farm is easy and doesn't require alot of resources and time lol.

Of course it is hard work, but a 1-man show can raise 50-75 cattle on his own. Tons of little farms around me that are not expensive operations. Zero labs by the way.

 

[Pride23]

Of course it is hard work, but a 1-man show can raise 50-75 cattle on his own. Tons of little farms around me that are not expensive operations. Zero labs by the way.

Take 2 minutes and think logically. Think about all that you require, you need the farm land, you need the cattle, you need the fertilizers, the feed, the water, a significant amount of time for everything to come to fruition.

Now picture a lab, that can literally grow the same meat in far less time with far less water, land, etc.

These labs are not bound by geography, you will not find them with farm lands. These labs will produce better meat for 1/5th the cost. Think about it.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Take 2 minutes and think logically. Think about all that you require, you need the farm land, you need the cattle, you need the fertilizers, the feed, the water, a significant amount of time for everything to come to fruition.

Now picture a lab, that can literally grow the same meat in far less time with far less water, land, etc.

These labs are not bound by geography, you will not find them with farm lands. These labs will produce better meat for 1/5th the cost. Think about it.

short sighted people like this think they're very clever, more clever than nature, that took hundreds of thousands of years to make animals into what they are. so you have this poster here who thinks he's very smart posting here some ideas read in some magazine somewhere. oh, the lab grown meat shall be very good, much better for the environment, more efficient.

sure, at first, all the energy needed to power the lab will be from fossil fuels. and it will operate at a loss for a long time since it's expensive to pay the lab technicians, to ensure safety protocols are met, to build and create massive production units, to build distribution networks, to have lawyers on standby just in case, to aggressively lobby and force publicity on people, maybe even force policy to make it mandatory in places.

and then you have to make it more efficient. because an animal is very cheap. it has been bred for self-multiplication, it optimizes its' diet, it grows according to the environment, it is, in all, a very efficient biological unit.
so how do you make lab grown meat as efficient as an animal?
maybe make the system that grows meat to process the nutrients itself, perhaps even harvest them itself, maybe even through directly consuming plants, and, through a very complex digestive system, using the energy and nutrients from those plants to grow the meat.
how very clever.
we basically are going to invent the cow once again.

 

[Pride23]

short sighted people like this think they're very clever, more clever than nature, that took hundreds of thousands of years to make animals into what they are. so you have this poster here who thinks he's very smart posting here some ideas read in some magazine somewhere. oh, the lab grown meat shall be very good, much better for the environment, more efficient.

sure, at first, all the energy needed to power the lab will be from fossil fuels. and it will operate at a loss for a long time since it's expensive to pay the lab technicians, to ensure safety protocols are met, to build and create massive production units, to build distribution networks, to have lawyers on standby just in case, to aggressively lobby and force publicity on people, maybe even force policy to make it mandatory in places.

and then you have to make it more efficient. because an animal is very cheap. it has been bread for self-multiplication, it optimizes its' diet, it grows according to the environment, it is, in all, a very efficient biological unit.
so how do you make lab grown meat as efficient as an animal?
maybe make the system that grows meat to process the nutrients itself, perhaps even harvest them itself, maybe even through directly consuming plants, and, through a very complex digestive system, using the energy and nutrients from those plants to grow the meat.
how very clever.
we basically are going to invent the cow once again.

Right, what ever you say man. Remind me in a few years to quote this guy.

 

[Pride23]

short sighted people like this think they're very clever, more clever than nature, that took hundreds of thousands of years to make animals into what they are. so you have this poster here who thinks he's very smart posting here some ideas read in some magazine somewhere. oh, the lab grown meat shall be very good, much better for the environment, more efficient.

sure, at first, all the energy needed to power the lab will be from fossil fuels. and it will operate at a loss for a long time since it's expensive to pay the lab technicians, to ensure safety protocols are met, to build and create massive production units, to build distribution networks, to have lawyers on standby just in case, to aggressively lobby and force publicity on people, maybe even force policy to make it mandatory in places.

and then you have to make it more efficient. because an animal is very cheap. it has been bred for self-multiplication, it optimizes its' diet, it grows according to the environment, it is, in all, a very efficient biological unit.
so how do you make lab grown meat as efficient as an animal?
maybe make the system that grows meat to process the nutrients itself, perhaps even harvest them itself, maybe even through directly consuming plants, and, through a very complex digestive system, using the energy and nutrients from those plants to grow the meat.
how very clever.
we basically are going to invent the cow once again.

Nothing to see here, clearly not where things are heading.
https://vegconomist.com/company-news/nestle-perfect-day-dairy/

 

[idrankyourbeer]

Now I want a mocha roach latte with whipped cricket and candied dragonfly wings.

fuck that i'd rather go vegan

i'll take the Beyond Bugs burger please.