International Europe’s soldiers keep quitting, just when NATO needs them

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Western allies weigh up conscription or national service, as the threat from Russia grows.

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BY LAURA KAYALI AND JOSHUA POSANER

PARIS — It’s no longer so much about recruiting new soldiers as it is about persuading existing troops not to quit.
This week, French Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu presented a talent retention plan to incentivize military personnel to remain in uniform.

That comes a few days after an annual report submitted to the German parliament showed that in 2023, some 1,537 soldiers left the Bundeswehr, reducing it to 181,514 personnel.

“Those conversations now exist in all capitals, in all democracies that have professional armies without conscription,” Lecornu said on Monday, mentioning the United Kingdom and the United States.

“At NATO meetings, we can talk about equipment, but now we also talk about ... the level of retention,” he added.

As Europe rearms in reaction to the war in Ukraine, countries such as Croatia are mulling bringing back conscription. Others, like Denmark, plan to expand it to include women. Germany scrapped conscription in 2011, but with many in the military ageing out of service there’s renewed discussion over some kind of national service system being reintroduced.

For countries relying on professional armies, the challenge is to make the armed forces attractive — something that's difficult to do in times of low unemployment, fierce competition from the private sector and widespread use of remote working.

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Not only about money​

In France, military personnel are staying in the armed forces on average one year less than they used to. In the U.K., there’s been an annual hiring shortfall of 1,100 troops — equivalent to two infantry battalions — even though the government contracted out recruitment to private firm Capita.

Money does play a part in getting people to stay. One of the French plan’s flagship measures is to boost retirement pensions by integrating bonuses; salaries are also being increased. But the problem is that the terms of service just aren’t that attractive, with chronic overtime, months-long absences from home and missed recuperation periods commonplace.

“The issue is not recruiting but retention, we need to retain also families,” Admiral Lisa Franchetti, the U.S. Navy’s chief of naval operations, said at a conference in Paris earlier this year.

In Poland, the new government earlier this year announced pay hikes of about 20 percent in an effort to retain troops. The minimum monthly salary for a soldier is rising from 4,960 złoty (€1,150) to 6,000 złoty. In response to the growing threat from Russia, the Polish military has grown from 95,000 in 2015 to 215,000 this year.

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The French plan includes help finding housing and accessing healthcare and childcare. Couples who both work within the armed forces ministry, even if one is a civilian, will be able to transfer posts together.

"I'd rather have fewer recruitments to improve retention than to go on a recruitment spree in which the number of people retained are constantly falling," Lecornu said.

In Germany, as part of efforts to beef up national defense, the government wants to get its armed forces headcount to 203,000 by the early 2030s — but recruitment is only growing slowly.

The Bundestag’s special commissioner for the armed forces, Eva Högl, has said that reinstating some form of conscription is one way to turn things around, but targeting women is a more obvious move to arrest the decline since potential there is “far from exhausted,” the lawmaker wrote.

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Legislation passed last year seeks to make conditions more attractive, including more support for childcare and increased retirement pensions.

There aren’t just problems with the hours, but also basic infrastructure. "When I visit the troops, I no longer hear that helmets and protective vests are missing — but lockers," wrote Högl in the annual report.

According to Högl, fixing up barracks and military facilities will cost around €50 billion — equivalent to half the total special fund the government created to update its military forces in the wake of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

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Laura Kayali reported from Paris, Joshua Posaner reported from Berlin.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-russia-ukraine-war-defense-france-germany-soldiers-army/
 
Yea this is a problem

Funding is good but you need people to use those weapons as well.I posted in some ukr thread assesment of us war college /west point that time of professional armies is coming to an end.Pro army cannot sustain casualties in ukr level conflict

Militaries should have some benefit for people that serve since people dont want to work for low pay and be treated like shit (usa has that college thing which is great for example)

There was a thread here which was completely against conscription yet in WW3 type scenario there would need to be one
 
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Yea this is a problem

Funding is good but you need people to use those weapons as well.I posted in some ukr thread assesment of us war college /west point that time of professional armies is coming to an end

Pro army cannot sustain casualties in ukr level conflict

Militaries should have some benefit for people that serve since people dont want to work for low pay and be treated like shit
Bingo
 
Yeah it ain't happening. Any country in Europe that tries to impose conscription will see their government toppled. Nobody in Europe is ready or willing for high intensity combat. All the noise coming from homos like macron has no support among the population.
 
Yeah it ain't happening. Any country in Europe that tries to impose conscription will see their government toppled. Nobody in Europe is ready or willing for high intensity combat. All the noise coming from homos like macron has no support among the population.

Considering how macron pussied out against wagner in africa and let them kill french its kinda weird hearing him flex so much
 
If Ukraine showed us anything, it's the US can win the War from offices in Arizona operating drones. Huge man power is not what it once was.
 
Considering how macron pussied out against wagner in africa and let them kill french its kinda weird hearing him flex so much
He's flexing for the EU elections where his party that has no real supporters will get crushed. you'll see how he shuts up about it after june.

Wagner so far kicked him out of three countries in Africa. France might have the best army in the EU but that's because our armies are dogshit, with no actual combat experience. what will he do, send a couple brigades in ukraine which will get bombed to shit in a month, and then you'll have riots on the streets in Paris. It's fucking stupid, he's stupid.
 
We're having manning issues here in the US too. In the guard (can't speak to active duty and reserves) there's just too much competition from the private sector. Plus a lot of people are tired of going to drill and just sitting around doing nothing. Plus getting promoted in certain MOS's is hard. There's plenty of other gripes but those are some big ones.
 
We're having manning issues here in the US too. In the guard (can't speak to active duty and reserves) there's just too much competition from the private sector. Plus a lot of people are tired of going to drill and just sitting around doing nothing. Plus getting promoted in certain MOS's is hard. There's plenty of other gripes but those are some big ones.
Southern Borders is one huge issue.
If Southern Border Crisis arent resolved this problem will spread to Canada with the migrants coming into larger numbers...

The Biden admin seems to have done nothing for the Southern Border crisis expect making it worse..
 
Yeah it ain't happening. Any country in Europe that tries to impose conscription will see their government toppled. Nobody in Europe is ready or willing for high intensity combat. All the noise coming from homos like macron has no support among the population.
There is no reason to any of them to fight for their countries. The EU has turned their backs on the citizens and only focuses on catering to migrants.
 
No one is going to fight for bankers/the military industrial complex for shit pay. Shocking. It's not as if it's the peoples military anyway, they're all totally controlled by special interests trying to start wars. Fuck em
 
Why would any real man fight for a country who has leaders that want to Jen Oh Syde the natives of his own country? I guess the rich feel their fences and private security are strong.
 
The UK armed forces are really struggling. They've treated white English males like shit for years now and their 5th columnists new arrivals are not interested in joining or are too incompetent to operate machinery.
 
The UK armed forces are really struggling. They've treated white English males like shit for years now and their 5th columnists new arrivals are not interested in joining or are too incompetent to operate machinery.

Yeah it's funny.

Actions:

Royal Air Force unlawfully discriminated against white male recruits in bid to boost diversity, inquiry finds

Meets consequences:

China's armed forces recruiting dozens of British ex military pilots in 'threat to UK interests'
 
Why would one want to enlist when daddy USA can do all the lifting for them?
Looks like we're actually doing the lifting, joining all the retarded coalitions of the "willing" that we don't want to join, to help America's retarded neocon global domination bullshit, while at the same time having to deal with all the retards from al Qaeda and Isis that come here and kill Europeans because of it. That alongside "spending 2%" of Gdp on buying shit that rots in warehouses but it helps the baseline of your military industrial complex. So spare me.

We'd be better off focusing on a European army. I hope it happens sooner rather than later.
 
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Something screwy with the numbers.

That comes a few days after an annual report submitted to the German parliament showed that in 2023, some 1,537 soldiers left the Bundeswehr, reducing it to 181,514 personnel.


ie one in every 118 soldiers left last year.

I'm thinking the average length of service is under 118 years.


Possibly just poor wording, either way article feels dubious.
 
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